Student Nationals 2004

noodle · Post by **noodle** » Thu Jun 19, 2003 12:46 pm

I am running a Blood Bowl tournament - for the Student Nationals in April 2004. I have noticed that (for obvious reasons) the WPS rules don't actually include any points for painting etc in the Blood Bowl rules. May I ask why? Is it because Blood Bowl is more like football etc and should be won by the guy who "wins" the most - unlike WHFB (although obviously winning is still a big part of it).

My idea for a scoring system was as follows

5 games:

Win: 50 points
Draw: 25 Points
Lose: 10 Points
TF: +3 pts
TA: -3 pts
CF: +1 pt
CA: -1 pt

(Field goals will be 2 points if used)

So about 56 points for a good win - the best teams should approach 300 points.

I was then going to have 50 points on painting:

Painted (3 colours): UP TO 10 points (if 80% have three colours then 8 etc)
Based: UP TO 10 Points
Detailed: UP TO 10 points
Team Background: 0/10 points (I'm not grading them!)
WYSIWYG: 0/5 points
WOW!: 5 points.

I also intend to have a "themed" competition. Games 1, 3 and 4 will be normal Blood Bowl games. But the tournament is a tour of Albion (with a booklet and everything). The 2nd game will be played using the junglebowl trees as it will be played in the Lustrian "bit" of Albion.

The final game will be played on the great plain of Albion - where there are standing stones built by the druids.... All the better for kicking field goals (the last game will use kicking)

Teams will be starting - with 1,100,000 to spend. One skill may be taken after each game for ONE player. No player can have more than ONE skill or advance. Players will ROLL to see if they get a trait/increase etc after each game...

Comments? I really like the idea of something a little different - but not too random, for next year's nationals...

shaniepoo · Post by **shaniepoo** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 7:40 am

How many people are you looking at for this tournament?

Also, wownt the trait/ increase get a bit complicated? Would you roll infront of the person you have 'just' played, 'about to' play or the head table?

rwould · Post by **rwould** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 9:06 am

My own preference is for every team, win or lose, to get the same options of a player increase each round. Rolling for the skill brings in that element of luck to the whole process, and for tournaments all teams should be equal each round.

A lot of players do not like painting points, as the result of the tournament should be based upon the games played rather than influenced by external factors. For example I have two excellently painted teams, and if a fair proportion of points was awarded for painting I would be far more inclined to use them than teams I paint myself!

Interesting scoring system, but it could penalise a heavy loss too much, as in reality for a loss you will be getting seven points as a minimum and not ten (as you will automatically have a TD difference of -1). Maybe increase to 15 or even 20 for a loss, and then take the TD's off.

Cheers

Richard

morph · Post by **morph** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 11:21 am

I agree with rwould that the points seem quite heavy both ways. If you win it's at least 53 points while your opponent gets at most 7 (excluding casualties). Seems like a very big difference, and if player lose their first two games it could be quite demoralising to have practically no points. So maybe shift the loss score up a bit and/or the win score down.

The painting seems fine however. It will be easy to get 35 points (3 colours, based, background, WYSIWYG) - anyone can get those. Detailed isn't too difficult either, so most people will get 45 points. In fact I'd be tempted to say 10 points for the wow factor, as 5 seems a little small, with very little gain for having an amazingly painted team.

noodle · Post by **noodle** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 11:54 am

I see your points. I'm now thinking of using the WPS 32 point system instead (see WPS site for details

)

I still want to keep the two novelty games though

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 12:33 pm

noodle wrote:I see your points. I'm now thinking of using the WPS 32 point system instead (see WPS site for details )

I still want to keep the two novelty games though

We warned that the WPS system does have flaws - you can win and still end up with a lower score than the loser (or more commonly win and end up with a lower score than someone who drew).

The more I think about scoring systems the more I think something like the football league is best (3 pts for a win, 1 for a draw then tiebreak on net TDs, net cas, total tds, total cas).

noodle · Post by **noodle** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 1:18 pm

Football points are OK but they don't allow for much variation of points, increasing the likelyhood of ties...

I agree about the WPS system though...

I managed 2 wins a draw and 2 losses at the GT and despite not losing by more than one TD all weekend I finished below someone with a 2 0 3 record

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 3:00 pm

noodle wrote:Football points are OK but they don't allow for much variation of points, increasing the likelyhood of ties...

That's why you have all the tie breaks... and when you combine it with Swiss its unlikely in the final rounds you are going to get too many people with an identical record.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 3:23 pm

The CanCon, Underground Bowl, Orion Cup, and GenCon Bowl all use a varient of this system ... those are some pretty good sized tournaments and I've never heard compliants about the system either from the coaches that played in them. Scoring for those works like this:

Win = 40 points
Tie = 30 points
Loss = 10 points

Won by more than 2 TDs = +10 points
Lost by only 1 TD = +10 points
Caused more Casualties than opponent = +10
Tied opponent for Casualties caused = +5

This system rewards competitive play from start to finish and the maximum make sure they are never higher than the better win. So if you loss, you can only get 30 points at best which is equal to a base line tie. If you tie, you could get 40 points at best which is equal to a base line win. This is delibrate as part of the system to encourage competitive play for the entire game.

Now adding in Sportsmanship and Painting. The points vary based on how many games you are playing for the tournament. But the combined total points from the 2 should be equal to having played one game of BB (ie no more than 60 points but roughly close to it and a minimum close to 10).

So here are the rules for a 4 game tournament:

SPORTSMANSHIP AND PAINTING POINTS

Tournament Points are awarded for Sportsmanship and for how well your team is painted. We do this because our hobby is not just about playing games and being a good sport and enjoyable opponent, but also about modelling and painting.

At the end of the four rounds, all players will rank their opponents in order from most sporting to least sporting and best looking team to worst looking team. These rankings will be used to add points to the final score and these final scores will be added to your tournament points from your games to determine the winners of the Blood Bowl tournament. In addition, these points will be totalled to determine the winners of the Best Sportsmanship and Best Painted teams. Ties, if they occur, for these awards will be broken by tournament officials.

Tournament points for these two categories will be awarded as follows for each opponent that listed you in that place:

Code: Select all

Sportsmanship               Painting
1st        9 points         5 points
2nd        7 points         4 points
3rd        4 points         2 points
4th        2 points         1 point

(ie a maximum score of 56 points/minimum of 12)
============================================

Now if you have a 5 game tournament, the points would look more like this:

Code: Select all

Sportsmanship               Painting
1st        8 points         4 points
2nd        6 points         3 points
3rd        4 points         2 points
4th        3 points         1 point
5th        2 points         0 points

(ie a maximum score of 60 points/minimum of 10)

=============================================

Hope this helps.

Galak

noodle · Post by **noodle** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 3:24 pm

Ian>Yes I know

And of course I can use the world cup "countback" system if I get really stuck

Also - I want to include sportsmanship and painting - which is hard to balance if you're giving 3 points for a win!

Galak's system looks pretty good. Mine's not bad - we use it in the league, but I suppose you think I'm "over rewarding" a win....

I may modify this.