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 Post subject: Re: New race on My Dugout app!
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:24 am 
Star Player
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Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 6:26 am
Posts: 718
Location: Adelaide, Australia
dode74 wrote:
I think it's fixable with a fairly major overhaul while retaining the base theme:
Remove A from the Retainers and make them 60k
Remove Guard from the Bodyguards and make them 70k
Make Throwers 0-2 and add Sure Hands
Remove Pro from Princeling and make them GAS 100k
Make Ogres 0-1.

This leaves you with:
0-1 Ogres (as standard) 140k
0-2 Princeling 7337 Catch Dodge GAS 100k
0-2 Thrower 6338 Pass Sure Hands GP 70k
0-4 Bodyguard 6338 Block GS 70k
0-16 Retainer 6338 Fend G 60k
Rerolls 60k

Team now has good starting options (e.g. 2 Princelings, 4 Bodyguards, 1 Thrower, 4 retainer, 3RR = 970k), isn't OP out of the box, has decent development options on the positionals and the Princelings are now viable and probably desirable for both their speed and their S access.


That's basically a very minor variation on the Human team, with ST3 Catchers and Fend Linemen.

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 Post subject: Re: New race on My Dugout app!
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:35 am 
Star Player
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Location: Adelaide, Australia
I think the fact that everyone's roster revisions are either moving back towards the current Human team or completely different to the GW Noble team proves Tom's comment about the team not really being fixable.

I think GW need to do more work on their teams before releasing them to the public. I know these teams were listed as experimental, but the Nobles are still too far off being balanced for that. Don't they supposedly have external playtesters (such as Milo)? If so, they should be pitching these variant teams to that group for feedback first.

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 Post subject: Re: New race on My Dugout app!
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:48 am 
Star Player
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Location: Adelaide, Australia
DaImp wrote:
To make the team fit it's fluff maybe make the Princelings a must take. So the team starts with 2 princelings and 780k to build the rest of the team with.

Not saying thats going to be balanced or fun to play but it makes the team match it's fluff (and maybe makes them a little less overpowered if you are forced to take the two least liked players on the team)


Besides the fact that forcing a team to include a player would be a new thing, forcing a team to start with 2 Princelings means you could afford 1 Bodyguard, 8 Linemen and 2 re-rolls. Not a lot of diversity in starting rosters and you still need to buy 3 more Bodyguards and 2 Ogres to get to the optimal team composition. That's 410k of players (plus Apo plus another re-roll). That's a lot of games before you get to an ideal team.

Also, what happens if the Princelings die in game 1? Are you forced to rebuy them as your next player?

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 Post subject: Re: New race on My Dugout app!
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:18 am 
Ex-Cyanide/Focus toadie

Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:55 pm
Posts: 2453
Location: Near Reading, UK
Olaf the Stout wrote:
That's basically a very minor variation on the Human team, with ST3 Catchers and Fend Linemen.
Everything is a minor variation on something. It's a matter of how minor is too minor, really. I think 7 as opposed to 5 S access and only two players faster than MA6 would make it somewhere between Orcs and Humans as far as playstyle goes. That said, I did say in this thread that they are not necessary, so...
Olaf the Stout wrote:
I think GW need to do more work on their teams before releasing them to the public.
And in other news, Pontiff found wearing unusual headgear, and bear faeces found in woodland ;)


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 Post subject: Re: New race on My Dugout app!
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:18 am 
Star Player
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Location: Adelaide, Australia
dode74 wrote:
And in other news, Pontiff found wearing unusual headgear, and bear faeces found in woodland ;)


Except GW supposedly have an external playtest group that you'd think would be ideal for initial playtesting. Otherwise what is the point of them?

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 Post subject: Re: New race on My Dugout app!
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:49 am 
Dwarf fetishist
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Olaf the Stout wrote:
dode74 wrote:
And in other news, Pontiff found wearing unusual headgear, and bear faeces found in woodland ;)


Except GW supposedly have an external playtest group that you'd think would be ideal for initial playtesting. Otherwise what is the point of them?

Window Dressing?

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 Post subject: Re: New race on My Dugout app!
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:47 am 
Da Spammer
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(Not having, or wanting, the app, I haven't paid much attention to this thread, so sorry if this has been said before.)

While I understand the idea of giving players more teams to use with their basic models these are horrible.
And I pity the new player that turns up at an established league wanting to play his "Nobility" team - they're not going to understand the laughs directed at them and/or the "powergamer" comments.
Suffice to say, I'm not allowing these anywhere near a league I run.

Very disappointed in the new stuff GW are issuing. :(

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 Post subject: Re: New race on My Dugout app!
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:59 pm 
Rookie
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Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:47 pm
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WTF to both teams and what's been happening to blood bowl of late. I just want to say the only edition of blood bowl I have not house ruled was 3rd edition! There are so many experimental and optional rules now! As for BB2 :puke: BB2 legendary addition......Hmmmm I will stick with table top all day! The A.I on those games is shit! Clock management is even worse.


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 Post subject: Re: New race on My Dugout app!
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:52 am 
Rookie
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:34 pm
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Location: BW, Germany
Why dislike both teams? The SOrcs are absolutely fine as a harder to play with some reward for it, but overall on a lower power level than normal orcs team. The nobility is whats a trainwreck of a mess at this point.


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 Post subject: Re: New race on My Dugout app!
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:21 am 
Emerging Star
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Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:21 pm
Posts: 427
The one thing about Savage Orcs is that their war paint gave them extra armour (a placebo effect probably). This has been missed in BB. For me (and how I play them) they should have more movement and the same armour as normal orcs, but less positionals. Or they should have a special rule where they could buy the warpaint as an extra. This would give them some different. As it is, it's clear they're here because GW don't want to do Khorne, but wish to offer a frenzy alternative.


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 Post subject: Re: New race on My Dugout app!
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:41 pm 
Legend
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Why isn't all this MyDugOut nonsense in the house rules section?

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 Post subject: Re: New race on My Dugout app!
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:29 pm 
Rookie
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:34 pm
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Location: BW, Germany
plasmoid wrote:
Why isn't all this MyDugOut nonsense in the house rules section?

Because it is rules coming from an official place, even if they are the most optional of the optional. Did you consider old White Dwarf additions to be house rules?


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 Post subject: Re: New race on My Dugout app!
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:16 pm 
Experienced
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Well, yes indeed. White Dwarf's chaos daemons, squigs and so on were as house rules as any other crazy stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: New race on My Dugout app!
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:48 am 
Veteran
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Joined: Fri May 31, 2013 1:52 am
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Optional rules =/= house rules (no matter how stupid the optional rules are)

To exclude OR include optional rules is a house rule.

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 Post subject: Re: New race on My Dugout app!
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:08 pm 
Rookie
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Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 12:28 pm
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Location: Mordenvale, Lochac
Manuel wrote:
Well, yes indeed. White Dwarf's chaos daemons, squigs and so on were as house rules as any other crazy stuff.


Chaos Daemons, Squigs, the Kantona Kick, Snotling Pump Wagons, Forest Folk, etc were Citadel Journal, not White Dwarf. So yes, they were house rules. (officially, while the CJ was around, all rules in WD were considered official unless stated otherwise, all in CJ were unofficial unless stated otherwise).

(Daemons were revised and made official in the :lol: popular and long-lasting :lol: 4th edition. Which also wasn't in White Dwarf.)

As far as I can recall, the only WD published rules for BB 3rd/4th/LRB were the Norse, possibly lizards and/or 'zons (I don't think so, but I'm not certain), an update to Dungeonbowl (which I'm pretty sure was clearly noted as being unofficial), and nerfing 2+ regeneration to 4+. WD mostly ran match reports, tactics articles, FAQ and "Look at the shiny new models! Buy the shiny new models!"

Instead of that nice clean "these rules are official, these ones are house rules we thought were worth sharing", what we've got here is a weird ambiguous "give-it-a-shot" whatsit, in which (to paraphrase the second post) 'here are some crazy new rules, just for fun, but they're still rules, but they're not official, except that they might be, I don't know, what do you think?'. I'm all for flexibility in rules, and encouraging players to tailor the rules to suit their league (or format of choice), but a good customisable ruleset requires a clear starting position.

CyberedElf wrote:
Optional rules =/= house rules (no matter how stupid the optional rules are)

To exclude OR include optional rules is a house rule.


No it isn't: LRB6 p16 / BB2016 "The Official Rules" p22. "All of the following extra rules are optional. This means..."

Regardless of whether you include all the optional rules, none of them or somewhere in between, you are following this rule.

For LRB6, as long as you are only including rules from LRB6, you are following this rule. If you start to include rules from outisde LRB6, you are bringing in house rules. If you exclude rules from earlier in the book (eg 4-minute turn timers), you're also bringing in house rules. But if you're only picking and choosing from the optional section, then you are following the official rules.

BB2016 is more complicated, due to splitting the rules up across multiple books. p22 goes on to mention future supplements. Clearly one of these is Death Zone Season One, and equally clearly, any subsequent DZ "Seasons". Beyond that it's anyone's guess. Are promo cards supplements? Is a White Dwarf article? Is a pdf downloaded from the bloodbowl.com website? Is an email from a game designer? Is an app? I'm not sure there's an official answer for any of those. Yay clarity! :roll:

Personally, I'll be considering everything that isn't in the base game or a Death Zone supplement (or errata) to be house rules unless clearly and specifically declared otherwise.

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