Register    Login    Forum    FAQ

Board index » Community Discussion » Digital Resources




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 120 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: New race on My Dugout app!
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:51 pm 
Rookie
Rookie

Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:34 pm
Posts: 48
Location: BW, Germany
Agreed, too, although I get why they did it. Its actually in theory a pretty good move, make an alt-Orc and alt-Human team so guys with the base game can now chose from 4 matchups by just having the base game material. That is great, it adds longevity and value to the base game.

Thats why I'd forgive the similarity of nobles and standard humans. And, for what its worth, having just the base game figures you will probably have a better experience with either Humans vs SavOrcs or Orcs vs. Nobles.

Heck, I'll paint my left over base game humans a bit sparkly and regal now so when some issues with those nobles are ironed out I can play them either as well-funded normal humans or as nobles.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New race on My Dugout app!
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:02 pm 
Super Star
Super Star
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 971
Deathrain wrote:
Agreed, too, although I get why they did it. Its actually in theory a pretty good move, make an alt-Orc and alt-Human team so guys with the base game can now chose from 4 matchups by just having the base game material. That is great, it adds longevity and value to the base game.


That was the general idea, to have alternate rosters for the existing models. I just don't know that these rosters were quite the way to go with them, and I'm not super enamoured of the distribution method.

_________________
Milo


Image


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New race on My Dugout app!
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:27 pm 
Emerging Star
Emerging Star
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:24 pm
Posts: 413
Part 2. Human Nobility.

UPS
-they are too pricey to be really "broken". Maybe they have a soft spot where they can make a viable roster that is fun to play, but I did not found it. They are always short on players and/or RR and they are AG 3. Redrafting will rape this team. They are powerful but beatable.
-I appreciate how bodyguards feel like the blockers of 2ed humans.

DOWNS
-2 Ogres IMHO is very, very bad. Chaos Pact as 3 Big Guys, but starts with NO basic skills save dodge on the goblin.....
-Blitzers are broken even if the team is not. Block+Guard cannot be 40k cost. Block+ Dodge is worth 60k. Block+ guard should be at least the same.
-Moreover NO player should have guard as a starting skill. Guard is the best skill in the game.
-Princelings should be the point of the team but pound for pound they are probably the worst players ever. They are Ghouls with 2 underperforming skills (that also overlap) for 40k extra.... There is no place for them on any roster. They just suck.
-Linemen with fend are annoying.... but really too picey to be the lest expensive thing in the team.... they are the worst 70k linemen and worse then most 60k linemen as well.
-I must point out that making some players too good and other too bad is NOT a good way to balance a team.
-I don't see the point of this team. Or the need of it. Snob humans. Really?!? BB2 Bretonnia is a LOT better.

HOW I WOULD CHANGE THEM
Option 1: I would simply erase them.
Option 2: I would sobstitute them with BB2 Bretonnia.
If you try to fix them they look too much like Humans or brets....


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New race on My Dugout app!
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:39 pm 
Godfather of Blood Bowl
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2001 1:00 am
Posts: 15853
Location: Indiana, USA
Yup ... the Nobility team is just horrible design ... its not a fixable (sorry Andy if you are reading this ... its not).

Plasmoid has to be crying over this roster which was clearly made by someone who does not play the game and has never seen the team development guides which would have been a good starting point.

If you have to go with the Bret team .... for the love of Pete uses the BB2 one ... I don't like it but it is a not a train wreck that makes me lose faith in GW's handlling of the game.

_________________
Impact! - Fantasy Football miniatures and supplies designed by gamers for gamers
Image


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New race on My Dugout app!
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:30 pm 
Rookie
Rookie

Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:34 pm
Posts: 48
Location: BW, Germany
I think it is fixable, it just requires major overhauls which I would hope they are willing to do with how these have been introduced.

On the topic of distribution because I hadn't said anything, yet: Yes how they do it is scummy, but the information is availiable through side channels which should allow for wider spread playtesting by those interested. And I wouldn't think the design team will reject feedback from anyone.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Mystic force
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:15 pm 
Rookie
Rookie

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:30 am
Posts: 35
I feel rather dumb for not realizing that these were alternative rosters for the released miniatures. .....


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New race on My Dugout app!
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:01 pm 
Emerging Star
Emerging Star
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:11 pm
Posts: 448
@Mystic Force: which experimental teams morphed into regular teams over time? I don't know much about pre-CRP BB, so pardon my ignorance.

Regarding the distribution method, there has to be a better way. I threw away $30 to have 1 mini shipped to the US, but I am not inclined to spend $2 on a few lines of stats for a team that is 'imaginary' at best. Are they going to tweak these teams later, in a week, month, or a year? Are they taking feedback on how to make them better? Shouldn't there be a method in the app to submit feedback regarding those teams? I would be more likely to spend $9 on an issue of White Dwarf to see some optional teams than to purchase a team for $2 that I have no clue about.

If they do want us to playtest teams for them, then what is the feedback method? It seems like there should be something within the app to submit that feedback.

_________________
Bloggin it: https://doubledowndice.wordpress.com


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Mystic force
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:33 pm 
Rookie
Rookie

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:30 am
Posts: 35
Ok I will try to get this right, but I have no old stuff in front of me to check against, and I am sure others will know or remember better than I.

3rd ed BB had DZ between them had humans, dwarves, skaven, High elf, dark elf, wood elf, undead, orcs, chaos, chaos dwarf, goblin, halfling and lizardmen. These original teams didnt change much over the years, except dark elf that changed from a team with throwers to runners and added assassins.

Then over the years we had various additions. Amazon and Norse apeared as humans rosters with less armour but all with dodge or block respetitivly. Amazon has remained much as they began, norse changed with a much different lineup. Vampire went through many variations with different types of vamps, vampire lords and regular vamps, Ogres started with goblins, but they were too good so got snottlings. Nurgle, pro elves, chaos renegade, underworld were to bring back concepts from the 2nd edition days. Khermi came because they were following GW races and then undead were to be replaced with what became Necro, but didnt so we gained a new team instead. There were others that didn't make it I think there were Deamon teams, and there were Bloodbowl playing Space Marines.

Many teams had number of positional changed, I rememeber undead getting 4 wights for a while. And High Elf blitzers used to have Strength access.

One of the biggest changes back and forth in rosters were big guys and negatraits, at one time you could remove them on skill rolls. This definetly impacted some rosters, and big guys lost routine access to general skills. Basically block was harder to get. Secret weapons were star player only, but then they could be part of your roster, then when that changed we eventually got rookie secret weapon players, via skill upgrade options to buy special weapons for players (I think it was use a skill roll plus an amount of cash dependent on weapon chosen, available on a lineman of certain races)

So lots of changes along the 20 years I have played, I never saw 2nd ed. Many of the team changes have also come about as the base rules changed.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New race on My Dugout app!
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:57 pm 
Star Player
Star Player

Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 6:26 am
Posts: 718
Location: Adelaide, Australia
I wasn't going to bother with comments on the teams, but since JT-Y says that they will be read here I figured I'd put in the effort.

The Savage Orcs are definitely not overpowered and are severely hampered by their lack of G access. The Blitzers are probably slightly undercosted, but it's not that big a deal considering how underpowered the team is elsewhere.

The Human Nobility on the other hand seems overpowered. They get 2 Big Guys plus 4 players that can start with Guard and Block. In addition their Linemen get GA access and their Catchers get GAP access.

The Bodyguards are undercosted. 6338 Guard, Block with GS access should not be 90k. Yes, Orc Blitzers are 80k with 6339 Block, so it seems similar, but it really isn't. Starting with Guard is worth more than 10k, even with a lower AV. Guard on a starting team (especially up to 4 of them) is huge. It allows you to get a heap of 2d Blocks easily, plus it means they are only 6 SPP away from MB (whereas some would normally have to diversify to taking Guard).

I'm sure why they have 0-4 Throwers, especially when they are the worst positional on the team (and Catchers have P access anyway). Yeah, they are a lot cheaper than Catchers, but you're probably going to take a Catcher or two.

Which means you're basically comparing a Thrower to a Lineman (both 70k). In that situation I'd take a Lineman every time since on this team you don't need a Thrower for access to a cheap Leader re-roll. I'd rather pay 20k for Fend and A access instead of Pass given the choice on a AG3 team.

I'm unsure as to why the team gets 2 Ogres. There seems no real reasoning for it.

From a fluff perspective the Savage Orcs are fairly well defined. They are a (somehow!) less refined sub-race of Orcs. Hence they have more Strength and Frenzy focus and less Block.

The Human Nobility, from a fluff perspective, are meant to be a team built around the Princelings. However, I don't see that playing out in the game. Yeah, the Princelings may start with 3 skills and have GAP access, but the Brutes are still going to be the stars of this team.

_________________
Image


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New race on My Dugout app!
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:18 am 
Emerging Star
Emerging Star
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:11 pm
Posts: 448
Thanks Mystic Force! I remember hearing about a few of those. Like the Dark Elves losing their thrower, but didn't realize that Assassins were a new addition to the team. I wish I could still buy 4 Wraiths for my Undead team, hahaha!

I guess this all goes back to your point of how things change over time. It sounds like we are heading towards a transition period where new stuff will come along, be hit with a hammer, and then melded into the whole. If that's the case, then it is an interesting period for me, as I missed those times with the other BB versions and always feel a little left out in regards with the history of the game. I have that history with a lot of other games, I played like rpgs, but I was 'late to the boat' on BB.

It sounds like it wouldn't take much to get Savage Orcs in shape. I'm wondering if the Nobility team wasn't called Brettonians, because they want to reserve that spot for the possibility of making a Brettonian team with models at some point?

I'm also curious, if they should keep offering up alternative rosters with the same models...if we'll see Skaven, Dwarves, and Goblins. I imagine an alternative Dwarf team would be easy enough in theme, but I'm not sure how I would even start to make an alt team for them that wouldn't end up being just another bunch of caging blockers.

_________________
Bloggin it: https://doubledowndice.wordpress.com


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New race on My Dugout app!
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:34 am 
Emerging Star
Emerging Star
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:24 pm
Posts: 413
Olaf the Stout wrote:

I'm sure why they have 0-4 Throwers, especially when they are the worst positional on the team (and Catchers have P access anyway). Yeah, they are a lot cheaper than Catchers, but you're probably going to take a Catcher or two.

Which means you're basically comparing a Thrower to a Lineman (both 70k). In that situation I'd take a Lineman every time since on this team you don't need a Thrower for access to a cheap Leader re-roll. I'd rather pay 20k for Fend and A access instead of Pass given the choice on a AG3 team.


I agree with everything you said but these 2 things.
I tried to put together some rosters and if you do I think you will see that:
- you will never take any catchers/princelings.... they are absolutely not worth it. Worst positional ever for their cost.
-you DO need 1 Thrower for access to a cheap Leader re-roll, because you will never have enough RRs. These guys are expensive and playing with 1RR on a AG 3 team is a big no-no. Just 1 thrower of course.

Best Roster I could come up with at tv 110 was:
2 Ogres, 4 Bodyguards, 1 Thrower , 4 Retainers, 1 RR, Apo
(with EB rules I would give guard to both Ogres, Leader to the thrower, Sure Hands to a Retainer, MB and takle to 2 bodyguards).
A super guardwall, but 11 player and a apo... with one RR+ leader. Not something I feel too confortable with.

Starting roster in a league would probably be:
4 bodyguards, 1 Thrower, 6 retainers and 2 rr (with 30 k towards the apo). Short.

I think that the guys that put this trainwreck together never even tried to make a roster (if they ever played a game).


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New race on My Dugout app!
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:13 am 
Rookie
Rookie
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:06 pm
Posts: 52
Location: Manchester
I love the idea of races having variant teams, but I suspect the key to them working might be to avoid straying too far from the original roster.

For example, a Dark Elf pirate team, based on the fluff of the Black Ark Corsairs (what better way to while away the long hours at sea than a friendly game of Blood Bowl against 11 of the captives on board?).

The only difference would be that the team wouldnt have Witch Elves or Assassins, but would have access to one or two new positionals instead.

...preferably not ones with Block AND Guard though :o

_________________
Image

The Waterbowl, home of Blood Bowl in Manchester: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1439880136307855/


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New race on My Dugout app!
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:14 am 
Star Player
Star Player

Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 6:26 am
Posts: 718
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Rolex wrote:
Olaf the Stout wrote:

I'm sure why they have 0-4 Throwers, especially when they are the worst positional on the team (and Catchers have P access anyway). Yeah, they are a lot cheaper than Catchers, but you're probably going to take a Catcher or two.

Which means you're basically comparing a Thrower to a Lineman (both 70k). In that situation I'd take a Lineman every time since on this team you don't need a Thrower for access to a cheap Leader re-roll. I'd rather pay 20k for Fend and A access instead of Pass given the choice on a AG3 team.


I agree with everything you said but these 2 things.
I tried to put together some rosters and if you do I think you will see that:
- you will never take any catchers/princelings.... they are absolutely not worth it. Worst positional ever for their cost.
-you DO need 1 Thrower for access to a cheap Leader re-roll, because you will never have enough RRs. These guys are expensive and playing with 1RR on a AG 3 team is a big no-no. Just 1 thrower of course.

Best Roster I could come up with at tv 110 was:
2 Ogres, 4 Bodyguards, 1 Thrower , 4 Retainers, 1 RR, Apo
(with EB rules I would give guard to both Ogres, Leader to the thrower, Sure Hands to a Retainer, MB and takle to 2 bodyguards).
A super guardwall, but 11 player and a apo... with one RR+ leader. Not something I feel too confortable with.

Starting roster in a league would probably be:
4 bodyguards, 1 Thrower, 6 retainers and 2 rr (with 30 k towards the apo). Short.

I think that the guys that put this trainwreck together never even tried to make a roster (if they ever played a game).


I think you're right about teams not starting with a Princeling (which is silly, given that fluff-wise, it feels like the team is basically Princelings and their retinue). However, I could see it being worth it to buy one later. Their extra movement is useful and with 1 skill you have a Blodger.

I guess the counter to that is that you can get a Blodging Retainer for cheaper if you want as they have GA access (110k vs 130k). You do miss out on Catch and Pro, but many would probably be ok with that trade-off.

_________________
Image


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New race on My Dugout app!
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:56 am 
Emerging Star
Emerging Star
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:24 pm
Posts: 413
Olaf the Stout wrote:

I think you're right about teams not starting with a Princeling (which is silly, given that fluff-wise, it feels like the team is basically Princelings and their retinue). However, I could see it being worth it to buy one later. Their extra movement is useful and with 1 skill you have a Blodger.

I guess the counter to that is that you can get a Blodging Retainer for cheaper if you want as they have GA access (110k vs 130k). You do miss out on Catch and Pro, but many would probably be ok with that trade-off.


Starting teams cannot afford a priceling.
And if you manage your team competitively you will never buy one.
It is the 110k with AV 7 on a team of 11/12 players (because of cost).
He is the weak point of the team. The one the opponent targets to get your numbers down.
And with 30 k more you can have 2 players.

A blodging retainer is not only cheaper. It has AV8 and Fend. Better.
Expecially because I think the best defence for this team is the guard wall.
If you play full contact Fend is way better then Pro or catch.

With AG 3 and few players it is a matter of staying power.
That's the main reason for no princelings.
That is why I would always play with 2 Ogres if possible. 1 Ogre has more staying power than 2 linemen.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New race on My Dugout app!
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:34 am 
Super Star
Super Star
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 882
Location: South Africa
To make the team fit it's fluff maybe make the Princelings a must take. So the team starts with 2 princelings and 780k to build the rest of the team with.

Not saying thats going to be balanced or fun to play but it makes the team match it's fluff (and maybe makes them a little less overpowered if you are forced to take the two least liked players on the team)

_________________
Jonathan Merry


Top 
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 120 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

Board index » Community Discussion » Digital Resources


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

 
 

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to: