Resurrection - my take (long!)

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Andy Hall
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Post by Andy Hall »

As I met so many of you from this site at the weekend (its good to put faces to the names) I thought I’d share some of my observations and what I plan for next year with you. Time permitting I’ll try and keep quite active on this thread, so it’s a good place to post your feedback too.

First of all it was great to meet so many Blood Bowlers the atmosphere was great and the refs didn’t have to bring out their red or yellow cards all day. However after going through the team rosters there is a significant percentage of illegal rosters (I’m not naming anyone!), thankfully none in the top twenty and I’m sure (almost positive) that these were honest errors. As this tournament was regarded as a pre-season friendly this doesn’t really matter. However, next year will be the first Blood Bowl Major so I will be clamping down on incorrect rosters and yellow, maybe even red cards will be dished out!

Galek said in a previous thread "I hope Andy has learnt his lesson", well, no I haven’t :wink:. Star Players had little overall effect of the tournament. Of the top five players there was only one Star Player (Headsplitter) in Geoff Porritt’s team and overall less than a third of (27.8% to be exact) bought Star Players with them. According to earlier threads the two Star Player’s that were of most concern Lord Borak – just one, the team he was with were placed very low in the overall standings. And of the seventeen Orc teams there was only four Varags. Also telling was that the highest placed Orc team was 11th (no Varag) but the majority of the Orc teams were towards the bottom of the final standings. Griff also seamed to perform poorly, constantly in the injured box of the dug out as I walked around the tables. In my humble opinion your simply better off buying re-rolls and positional players as they don’t attract the fouls and blocks the Stars were getting. The noticeable exception was probably Deathwing’s Count Luther!

Does this mean I’ll allow Star Players next year? Well I don’t know! They don’t unbalance the teams but is it a case of people just don’t want them in the Tourney’s? You guy’s are probably the best testers for this, so would you mind if you saw them next year or not?

I feel the skill system worked out well. I heard lots of discussions and lively debates of what people were planning to take and the pro’s and cons of each and how this would effect their tournament strategy, all good stuff! From a personal point of view I would just kit as many linemen with block as I could but some went for all manner of exotic skills, Anthony was telling me how Strip Ball worked out really well. A couple of options I’m tinkering with for next year would be to keep it as it is (if it ain’t broke…) or maybe having win giving you access to traits or even having a simple point system; 1 for a loss 2 for a win Skills cost two points. I must admit I’m quite happy with how things worked out so I wont take much convincing to keep the skill progression the same.

The other bone of contention was the scoring system and I do think this needs a little tinkering with. Maybe wins should be 5 points instead of 3 placing more emphasis on coaching. Let’s not forget that next year we will have more games and so the difference in points between players will be greater. So, will more games be enough or should we increase winning as well?

I think the most important thing for me was that we proved a Tournament can take place because of Resurrection’s success I can go to Rick (Priestly) and Jervis and say next year we can have a two day event and open it up to at least 200 participants. This may sound like a no-brainer but when planning budgets I have to prove on paper tickets will be sold etc.

So, good going to all those that participated. Next year will be bigger and will have a wackier quiz with the right answers! I’m also thinking about a life-size game of Blood Bowl on one of the evenings where you guys are the players and we’ll have giant dice and everything! Well, we’ll see!

Andy Hall
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GalakStarscraper
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Post by GalakStarscraper »

Andy ... I meant to retract my Star Player statement ... forgot to sorry.

The first Resurrection report we had was from Deathwing who talked about how Luthor was a force. This combined with the pre-tournament discussion on whether the star should be allowed or not gave me an early belief that the stars had had a large impact. After getting more info I realized that only Deathwing's Luthor was a force ... so my thoughts on this changed. Forgot to post that sorry. Sounds like you ran a good tournament ... congrats from experience I know that is not an easy thing to pull off.

As for the scoring ... yah ... with Chet/Acerak going 4-0, allowing his opponent's no TDs in any of his matches, and scoring 12 TD in his 4 games ... I'm really surprised he only placed 4th. But I'm still trying to figure out what other points factored in.

Its difficult to accurately weight a tournament that factors in variables outside of winning/losing. So lessons get learned and you do it up better next year.

By the way ... two last things:
1) How does painting work ... if I have someone else paint the figs does that need disclosed ... does the painting have to be yours? I'm honestly don't know the answer thats why I'm asking. There is more pride if you do it yourself, but is it necessary if you have feet for hands?
2) Who do I have to have executed to get one of the LE Gutter Runners for my collection.

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Post by DaFrenchCoach »

We're some ones there who asked for the same last question :lol: I hope Fanatic will continue to make it for Blood Bowl events (maybe for Games Day ?)

To my mind starplayers add something to BB rosters... and for your opponent too, because it attract your opponent attention... Ans special minis are nice too :wink:

I read some times ago an "extra positional players" suggestion... maybe BBRC could do something for adapting it to 2K1 rules... For example: 2 Extra position players could be taken in this list: 1 star, 1 big Guy, 1 ally... or 2 stars, or 2 big guys ... don't know.

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Post by Deathwing »

A bit of feedback:
First of all, Stars. This was my first tournament of any description and I took what I knew would be a competitive roster. Next time I doubt I'll field a Star. Was Luthor such an exception, and have you got a different result sheet to me? :wink: My last opponent, (Colin Tough) is on my list as 10th with Orcs, and he most definately DID take a Varag! Andy is next Orc coach at 15th on my list, and he took a Varag AND a Morg, so the top two Orc teams fielded Stars.

Liked the skill system, clean , simple and effective.

I agree that the point system needs tinkering with, if I was Geoff Thirwell, won all 4 games and finished 22nd I would have been absolutely gutted! Probably a little too much emphasis on Sportsmanship with so few games this time around, it made a bit of a lottery of the final standings. I'd be interested to know how many people gave their point to somebody who beat them. Maybe I'm being a bit cynical, but if Chet had picked up just 1 sportsmanship point...
Will more games solve it alone? Possibly. This weekend it was too big a factor. I'd rather see a win worth more than being a nice loser.

Anyway, I enjoyed it thoroughly, definately be back next time around, many thanks to all concerned! :smile:

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Post by Anthony_TBBF »

I agree with Deathwing for the most part. I think upping the wins to 5 points along with making the event last 6 games will even thigs out. I would keep the Most Sporting points in (maybe in a different format - rate each coach on a few criteria) and Best Painting points out. I think the painting part is important but should be a seperate award. Sporting points are important IMO, because nothing is worse than playing a bad winner! :wink: Luckily I didn't see any of that going on at all, everyone was out to have a great time.

In the end, a very well executed tournament and I will be back next year!

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Post by Trambi »

:sad: I don't like star players :sad: :sad:

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Post by GalakStarscraper »

Hey Andy ...

Any chance of getting the Millionaire questions and choices ... BB trivia is almost my life ... just curious if I missed my chance to clean up.

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Post by Andy Hall »

Galek,

Don't worry about the Star Player thing! I'm getting the webguy to put up the BB Millionaire games as a flash thing. He’ll put it up when it's ready (and yes before the wiseguys start all the answers will be correct :wink:

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Post by Norse »

Well Andy,

I wasn't there, so my comments are more general than specific.

I'm no fan of Stars, but if someone is willing to spend the extra money on them I guess it evens itself out over time. I'd rather have an extra lineman and an extra re-roll, but that's just me...

Again, I can't comment on the scoring except to say that Longfang LOST his first game and came 2nd, while Chet won every game and came lower than that! I would agree that wins = points and the other stuff (sporting, painting) should be seperate awards voted on by the other participants (Excuse momentary communistic tendencies..)

Anyway, everyone seems to have had a ball, and I'll be there next time, no really I will!!!!! :wink:

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Post by Spyke »

I'll add my 2 cents worth to the scoring system discussion by re-stating some comments I made to the NAF mail list. While painting and sportmanship have value they were given a far too heavy weighting at BBRes. My opinion is the win (3) & draw points (2) should have been doubled to 6 & 4 respectively, thus making the gameplay more important than the painting & sportsmanship. That combined with more games over 2 day would improve things dramatically. Point me towards the hyperlink to book my place for next year Andy.

Spyke.
PS: Well done to Jervis, Andy and the team.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Spyke on 2002-03-20 21:48 ]</font>

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Post by haggislad »

My turn to comment it seems. The day itself was wonderful with so many great guys to meet and put faces to names. main problem I found was the scoring system which would have been better if it went something like this.

6 points for a win
4 for a draw
3 lost by 1 td
2 for a loss
+1 for 2+ casualties(great for dwarves, etc)
+1 for a shut out(great for dwarves, etc)
+1 for scoring 3 td's(great for finese)

this gives everyone something to go for in the game even if you can't win. A little emphasis on casualties and on scoring more tds. That should then place a little less emphasis on painting without changing the points system. Also with sportsmanship possibly 4 questions with a 1-5 scale for poor - great. Things like gameplay, personality, team comp, overall which could be then used to give an average for each opponent so sportsman ship could be out of 5.
Only a few observations but it would stop the gasps of disbelief from the crowd and comments of "but I only won two games" from a certain winner :grin:

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Post by longfang »

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Post by Marcus »

My ideal:

Sportsmanship - Should be worth roughly the same as one game's worth of coaching scores and should be geared to enforce a minimum standard of conduct with bonus points for the guys who really make the day worthwhile. This should simply include questions like "was the opponent fun to play", "was their team well balanced and in character or was it rather beardy, full of allies etc". Basically the idea should be to reward players who make the day fun for their opponents.

Painting - Again, a minimum standard should be enforced but I find it really frustrating to see players on the podium who got there largely by virtue of their painting. Some players have neither the talent to paint well nor the money to have it professionally done but will still put in the effort to make their team presentable. Penalise a player in the sportsmanship scores for having a team that's in need of a touch-up, or hasn't had much effort put in (they are, after all, making the game less fun for the opponent) but save the bonus points for a seperate painting prize.

Coaching -
6 points for a win
4 for a draw
3 lost by 1 td
2 for a loss
+1 for 2+ casualties(great for dwarves, etc)
+1 for a shut out(great for dwarves, etc)
+1 for scoring 3 td's(great for finese)
I'm saluting that one. I think the concept of "bonus points" for winning by a large amount, shutting out the opposition or giving them a good kicking is crucial to help separate the great coaches from the merely good on the day. From what I saw of the scoring at Res, the sportsmanship and painting components comprised a disproportionately high percentage (33% unless I read it wrong) of the final score and there was no differentiation made between winning 2-1 with a lucky long bomb in the last turn and caning someone 5-0.

At the end of the day, a system like this should encourage the following:

A player who wins 3 games, loses one, but really makes the day worthwhile for their opponents will score as much as a player who wins 4 from 4 but is a chore to play.

Players on the losing end of a game will have plenty to play for to close up the gap or prevent a shutout, keeping them in the running.

Players should not be left off the podium due to poor painting talent or lack of money for professional paint jobs - so long as they put in the effort they should have as much chance as anyone else.

Amongst the top players who won every game, and had roughly equal sportsmanship scores, bonus points should help distinguish who played well from who really shined.

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Post by Trambi »

I agree painting could be a part of sportmanship. And it's always possible to deliver a painting award.

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Post by Anthony_TBBF »

In the upcoming Orion Cup we are going to use a similar format to Res, with some minor differences:

Painting and Sportsmanship won't be given points but will be done by a vote to decide the award.

We will use the following points system:

Win: 4
Tie, Lose by one: 2
Loss: 1
Concede: 0 (and forfeit your skill choice for the game. We don't people giving up!)

Ties in points will be decided by TD differential.

We'll also be having one half of OT if the game is tied at the end of the second half. If it's still tied at the end of OT then we'll call it a draw.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Anthony_TBBF on 2002-03-22 17:46 ]</font>

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