Narkotic's Skaven Guide (long)

GenoNBBL · Post by **GenoNBBL** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 11:57 am

I thought this could do with bumping up.

Brilliant guide Narkotic, very well written with good arguments and reasons.

I've just started a Skaven team in one of our divisions of the NBBL and I took them to a 3-2 win over another rookie team (Dark Elfs). I went against your advice though and took a Rat Ogre to start with. This helped immensly as a backfield saftey and he infact killed a 70K Dark Elf Lineman in the first half. I have a Rat Ogre development you might not have looked at however.

You need a double to get it but have you considered Tentacles? Obviously this means he's set of a defensive role (which is how I play mine) but with MA6 he can move quickly accross the backfield and put a TZ on the ball carrier and his buddies. With Tentacles the opponent needs a 6 to perform a dodge and then also has prehensile tail to deal with. I'd conisder also giving him Tackle and Shadowing to make him a real terror on defense. In order of skills I'd get:

Tentacles (whenever a double came up)
Block, Tackle, Shadowing

Even without Tackle and Shadowing and just with Tentacles and Block he'd still be brilliant at keeping people in place.

But his is still a Wild Animal at the end of the day and should be treated with caution. I just pray for a double so I can actually get tentacles and test my theory.

And have you thought of developing Storm Vermin with Block/Tackle/Mighty Blow? Excellent Elf/Catcher/Amazon killer. with a ST increase or Horns on a double he'd be excellent.

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 12:56 pm

Maybe I'm biased but I did not had great moments with my Rat-ogre AND I'm awful when it comes to AV-rolls. My rat Ogre only made 5 CAS in 8 Games or so (!).

The very first two games after I bought him he rolled 3x Double Skulls/Skull Pows.

The most dreaded moment was when I played against a grinding Orc team with Pile On BOBs and tried to score fast to get my team out of the line of fire. My ballcarrying Gutter Runner was through and unstoppable and the clever git sprinted with his Block-Ogre next to my RO.

I'm very cautious when it comes to a RO and that is refelected in my guide, but I know there are coaches who do better with him.

Following my conservative stance, I would give him Block, Pro and on the first double RSC. Afterwards would go with what you suggested.

I develop my Storm Vermin in pairs and gave them Strip Ball/Tackle first in order to deal with fast teams. But I opted for Guard as their second skill, still waiting for a double and giving them Claw or RSC which is better than Mighty Blow. I prefer to give my Storm Vermin functional skills (Strip Ball, Guard etc.) instead of Brute skills like Mighty Blow.

Circular_Logic · Post by **Circular_Logic** » Fri Nov 21, 2003 12:01 pm

The thing is:
If you have a RO, get it at the start, or never. I know, it´s hard to start with one, and you´ll probably loose a game or two because of him, but when you buy him, when you got 14 other player, then he will never get anywhere, because his WA is even more exploitable.
RatOgres are the best BigGuy for me. You can use them every turn (so you cannot loose your blitz due to bonehead), they are fiercefull with their access to mutations and frenzy and they have AG3.
For advancement, you can go 2 ways with your RO:
The killerroute, with block/tackle/pro and Claws/RSC on doubles.
For Defense check out block/tackle/pro and tentacles or dodge on doubles. If you are lucky enough to get an AG4-ratogre, get dodge asap. It´s really scary.

Cooper · Post by **Cooper** » Fri Nov 21, 2003 1:00 pm

narkotic wrote:I'm very cautious when it comes to a RO and that is refelected in my guide, but I know there are coaches who do better with him.

Following my conservative stance, I would give him Block, Pro and on the first double RSC. Afterwards would go with what you suggested.

I think Piling on in its current form is also very good for conservative players like me. Whith piling on you have a choice of putting him on the floor, which means you don't have to use him next turn. (and with RSC you have a monster)
W

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Fri Nov 21, 2003 7:35 pm

GenoBBL, I've seen tentacles on a Minotaur, and it is a highly effective thing to have.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Fri Nov 21, 2003 8:41 pm

Love your guide. Can't say I agree 100% with everything but that's a matter of taste and style. I can't fault the soundness of it.

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 10:40 pm

Have to re-write the RO section anyway with the NewWA, will try to incorporate some ideas mentioned in this thread as well.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Fri Nov 28, 2003 12:20 am

Just a suggestion, but waiting a few weeks/months until strategies for and against the RO's play is probably a good idea.

I don't even know of anyone who's used them yet, and I can guess that the strategy for a RO is going to be hit anyone in front of you or try to move into a pair of 3 strength tackle zones. But I haven't seen him in play yet, and he'll be very different against Elves and Amazons, of course.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:28 am

On the Storm Vermin thing, I stopped trying to make SVs into blitzers some time ago. They're the same as linemen but with Block, ST skills and extra AV. Since GRs generally do the turnover work on my teams I build SVs with ST skills and use them as blockers. Guard, Mighty Blow, Tackle, etc.

You can waste too much time trying to get an SV where you want them if you need them to blitz or whatever. Better to use a GR and keep the SVs tying up opponents, they're pretty much the only guys on your team you can mark someone with without fear of them dying on the first block.

Munkey · Post by **Munkey** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:56 pm

I was planning on the Guard route with my SVs, but as I have had 4 of them over 13 games and none have managed to get any SPPs yet it could be a while till I have to worry about 2nd skills.

bubb · Post by **bubb** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 2:50 am

Thanks for that Narkotic...

So far in my league I have just finished up my third game and have followed your guide ALMOST to the letter.

I opted to supply my SV with Mighty Blow since most of my opponents have low AV and I wanted a guy that could deliver some brute shots.

My two original GR's have already scored 5 and 4 TD's resepctively and I just bought third as the "new wave"..

I do not have a RO and only one thrower as well. I have equipped one GR as a catcher and one as a speed runner and it has worked lovely thus far..

Thanks for the guide!

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 9:53 am

I'm pleased that it helped you. Good to know that the guide works out well...

I gave my two Storm Vermins Guard (as their second skill, first was tackle/strip ball) but I have problems utilizing the skill fully. They seem to stand always on the wrong place as I try to keep them out of crowded areas. Or I simply forget that they have guard

, it becomes quite difficult to coach my Skaven team properly with so many skills and builds scattered over the team.

Most important is: spread your SPPs

What I discovered so far in addition is that a Gutter Runner with Block can be a serious threat if you are risking a 2-D against you Block (with a Team-RR). I scored so many TD when I Blitzed his Thrower near his endzone when he was organizing his team for offence, picked up the ball and ran for it...

Melifaxis · Post by **Melifaxis** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:37 pm

Fabulous guide! I am playing skaven in my league now, and there are some really great points in here.

(I've been lucky and got doubles on my first 2 GR's on their first skill roll - took VLL with the first and am leaning towards Dauntless for the 2nd)

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:53 pm

After 16 matches my Skaven Team has a TR of 207 and apart from several 1-skill Linerats the backbone of the team consist of:

2x SV with Guard + Strip Ball/Tackle
1x Thrower with Accurate, Safe Throw
1x GR with AG5, Leap, Block and Pass Block (actually I had two of them but one got killed)
1x GR with Dauntless, Horns, Block
1x GR with MA10, Block
1x RO with RSC, Block

The rest of the team is more or less for putting tacklezones or assisting. The RO is becoming the CAS-machine of the League (Frenzy, MB, RSC and Block), but we're still playing with the old rules, so no pathethic "roaring around".

I've scored many TD with the MA10-Block GR by sprinting deep into the half of the opponent and throwing 2D-against Blocks and snatching the ball afterwards. You have to see their faces when this happens

Mix in one of the guard SV for protection and see them crying

Krashlandon · Post by **Krashlandon** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 3:24 am

Nice work Narkotic, I love my current Skaven team and the Horns/dauntless Gutter Runner/D sweeper soundds just right for those shutting down that last crucial drive of your opponent. I've got the scorring machine, Verylong legs/Sprint/Sure Feet/catch/, and the scoop and pass thrower, Big hand/accurate. But right now I'm working on the plan B combo. I've got the down field Gutter Runner with +1 ST! and diving catch, and I'm trying to get my 2nd thrower Hail Mary. I like this idea for when I fumble and my line gets rolled but the ball is still in my back feild. Provided my opponent was not so fast as to get to the fumbled ball, which if they can get past my storm vermin, Rat ogre, and Plague Monks(yeah, yeah I think the're great) then they shouldn't be that fast. But I've no doubt that my 1 turn guy is on the ground, so I pick up the ball and cross my fingers. Anyway, nice breakdown I'll be taking notes.

Talk Fantasy Football

Narkotic's Skaven Guide (long)

Nice...