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 Post subject: Re: NAF Championships 2016 - Queries
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:06 pm 
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I showed these images to my 12 and 15 year old children (American/German culture background).. They found it funny and were definately not offended.... and if I also may remark on a personal note: there are cartoons, e.g Tom & Jerry, which were considered appropriate to all ages, which showed much worse than a ball being stuck in someones butt.

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 Post subject: Re: NAF Championships 2016 - Queries
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:15 pm 
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Tojurub wrote:
I showed these images to my 12 and 15 year old children (American/German culture background).. They found it funny and were definately not offended.... and if I also may remark on a personal note: there are cartoons, e.g Tom & Jerry, which were considered appropriate to all ages, which showed much worse than a ball being stuck in someones butt.

Thank you Tojurub.

The "Dump Off" diorama depicts the unfortunate situation where a ball has become lodged and an Apothecary is preparing to remove it (not insert it further!).

Indeed the pictures of the diorama were posted here to confirm directly with Hawca if it would be appropriate for the Duel Competition. I believe his answer is "If it's in appropriate I will ask it to be removed (after first discussing with the official refs and NAF staff present to ensure we get the fairest outcome)". Obviously I will abide by his decision which I elicited in the first place.

I am surprised to hear from Geggster that this diorama was complained about last year and wonder if it would have been complained about if another more risky entry had not encouraged complaints.

On that subject I am a little disappointed that dioramas that glorify violence may be more acceptable in this day and age than those that promote humour, possibly a sad reflection on the world we live in.

Lastly I would hope most 13 year olds would find it hilarious not offensive as it is similar in vein to the widely available Lost Puppy Far Side cartoon:

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PS I see the ball as stuck up the Ogre's arse not his rectum, Mubo's choice of words seems a little inflammatory.

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Last edited by Garrick on Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:22 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NAF Championships 2016 - Queries
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:35 pm 
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I am sure that had another entry, as it were, not ruffled a few feathers, we might have had fewer/no complaints about yours.

You have certainly showed considerable skills in doing this, and I agree it's not without physical or verbal humour, but just because some kids don't find it a problem, doesn't mean it is necessarily appropriate to all.

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 Post subject: Re: NAF Championships 2016 - Queries
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:52 pm 
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Would the same type of diorama elicited complaints if the ball had been stuck in the ogres face (mouth) or chest?

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 Post subject: Re: NAF Championships 2016 - Queries
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:37 am 
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mubo wrote:
...
I think if a parent of a 13 year old player showed up and noticed an entry like this....


I really believe that the main concern here is the statement in bold here. The 13 year old is probably getting the joke, but the parent find it inappropriate :(

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 Post subject: Re: NAF Championships 2016 - Queries
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:51 am 
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Tojurub wrote:
mubo wrote:
...
I think if a parent of a 13 year old player showed up and noticed an entry like this....


I really believe that the main concern here is the statement in bold here. The 13 year old is probably getting the joke, but the parent find it inappropriate :(

I think Tojurub may have hit the nail on the head here. Are we in danger of over accommodating a "political correctness" that may be out of touch with the attitudes of "children" who are old enough to appreciate the blood thirsty mayhem that is Blood Bowl?

On the associated point of dress code, will the scantily clad Cosplay enthusiasts who were such a hit at the World Cup not be welcome at the NAF Championships? And if so, why is there a difference in attitude between two of Blood Bowl's most prestigious tournaments?

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 Post subject: Re: NAF Championships 2016 - Queries
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:53 am 
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I didn't intend to diminish your fig Garrick, it is funny, although gross.

My only concern is that if someone rocks up at their first tournament, maybe 13 with a parent- is that model (and it is pretty graphic) being on display at the front of the hall going to make the parent a) more happy with b) less happy with c) or indifferent to their child attending more tournaments and getting into the hobby. I suspect it would tend towards b) for a significant enough proportion of people to make it worth leaving it for another tournament. If I hold a tournament, I'll most definitely have a "most disgusting blood bowl injury" competition.

I agree, the proportion of b)s isn't going to be as high as with the other entry, but still enough I think.

As most other tournaments are held in pubs etc and are "adult" environments. I think it would be suitable, just not at the GT maybe?


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 Post subject: Re: NAF Championships 2016 - Queries
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:19 am 
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I agree with Tojurub in that the 13 year is probably the perfect audience for Garrick's entry. This one is very much on the borderline for me, I don't remember being too worried about it last year, but in terms of shock value it was clearly not competing with a certain other entry. :wink:

More generally the NAFC (at least as I ran it) is intended to be the most family friendly tournament going. As a consequence, its tone might be more PC than other events, but that is by design.

The scantily clad ladies would not be welcome at the event were I running it. Seeing 40 year old men leer at them is again not the tone I'd want to set for this one particular event. I'm not prudish about it, I just think things like this (and provocative female minis) make us look a bit pathetic as a community, which isn't the message I'd want to send at a flagship event. The World Cup is different, maybe because of the cost and travel I didn't see many (any?) kids there.

As Nick mentioned, many other events are by nature or setting adult environments and parents should understand that. I do remember one tournament set in a pub where someone brought their kids along to the evening meal and after 12 hours of drinking expected us (as complete strangers) to keep our language and topics of conversation clean. I don't spend £100 on a weekend to babysit someone else's kids, and I totally appreciate anyone who makes that kind of argument. However, I don't think it is much of a compromise to wear appropriate clothing or not make a diorama with rectal bleeding. I think a similar diorama with a comedic rather than graphic paint job / tone might be perfectly fine actually.

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 Post subject: Re: NAF Championships 2016 - Queries
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:24 am 
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Garrick wrote:
On the associated point of dress code, will the scantily clad Cosplay enthusiasts who were such a hit at the World Cup not be welcome at the NAF Championships? And if so, why is there a difference in attitude between two of Blood Bowl's most prestigious tournaments?

For fear of going off topic, I know for a fact they made several people uncomfortable and not just the women coaches.

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 Post subject: Re: NAF Championships 2016 - Queries
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:27 am 
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Joemanji wrote:
I agree with Tojurub in that the 13 year is probably the perfect audience for Garrick's entry. This one is very much on the borderline for me, I don't remember being too worried about it last year, but in terms of shock value it was clearly not competing with a certain other entry. :wink:

More generally the NAFC (at least as I ran it) is intended to be the most family friendly tournament going. As a consequence, its tone might be more PC than other events, but that is by design.

The scantily clad ladies would not be welcome at the event were I running it. Seeing 40 year old men leer at them is again not the tone I'd want to set for this one particular event. I'm not prudish about it, I just think things like this (and provocative female minis) make us look a bit pathetic as a community, which isn't the message I'd want to send at a flagship event. The World Cup is different, maybe because of the cost and travel I didn't see many (any?) kids there.

As Nick mentioned, many other events are by nature or setting adult environments and parents should understand that. I do remember one tournament set in a pub where someone brought their kids along to the evening meal and after 12 hours of drinking expected us (as complete strangers) to keep our language and topics of conversation clean. I don't spend £100 on a weekend to babysit someone else's kids, and I totally appreciate anyone who makes that kind of argument. However, I don't think it is much of a compromise to wear appropriate clothing or not make a diorama with rectal bleeding. I think a similar diorama with a comedic rather than graphic paint job / tone might be perfectly fine actually.

A big +1.

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 Post subject: Re: NAF Championships 2016 - Queries
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:50 am 
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Couldn't agree more with all of Joe's post. The NAFC is a bit different from a normal tournament in terms of acceptability, and I was really uncomfortable with the Cosplay at the WC. That is as an adult without children to worry about. In 2015, I can't believe it was a thing, and I was a bit embarrassed for us as a community.


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 Post subject: Re: NAF Championships 2016 - Queries
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:01 pm 
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Joemanji wrote:
I think a similar diorama with a comedic rather than graphic paint job / tone might be perfectly fine actually.

I only added the blood because another Blood Bowler said it would look better with it, indeed one of the comments I got at last year's NAFC was that it was not gruesome enough and needed more blood! I suspect with so many opinions I ain't going to be able to please all of the people all of the time. I would be happy to remove the blood if this made it acceptable / eligible for the Duel Competition as a lot of time, money and effort has gone into this diorama and I would be disappointed if I was not allowed to enter it in the competition.

After last year where the winning entry won despite not abiding by the rules of the competition my inner child is amused at the lengths I am going to win approval for my entry to be allowed this year ;)

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 Post subject: Re: NAF Championships 2016 - Queries
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:09 pm 
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Are you entering the same fig then?

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 Post subject: Re: NAF Championships 2016 - Queries
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:16 pm 
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sann0638 wrote:
Are you entering the same fig then?

If I am allowed to.

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 Post subject: Re: NAF Championships 2016 - Queries
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:42 pm 
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I don't agree with the clothing, I think people should be allowed to wear what they like, I think it's sad that people get offended. I take my kids swimming and no one is offended in what anyone sees.
You can't tell people what to wear, everyone's interpretation of appropriate is different, so if you don't like it then avert your eyes.
Or maybe the NAF can hand out Burkas an head scarves to any females\males dressed in female clothing and coseplayers. Or better yet ban them altogether. Way to go BloodBowl community, isolate the very few women who brave the geekdom even more, together we will ensure this is a man's game! (sarcasm) so sad!

I thought MadeOfWelsh's entry was funny, the use of the running human from the Warhammer Giant kit was superb, didn't quiet understand how the Witch Elf had gained Prehensile Tail (perhaps at a Chaos Cup) though. Sweet innocence is bliss.

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