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 Post Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 5:19 pm 
Legend
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traveller wrote:
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Can't see your pics Trav


Just refresh the page... seems , you got still the old version in the cache.
Its working at different PCs for me...

Traveller


Made a stupid mistake: I clicked the DungeonBowl 05 section and then realized that the DO pics are above :oops:

Really nice pics and it seems that all you guys have had a very good time at the tourney.

Cheers

Alex


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 Post Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 11:40 pm 
Legendz Bedo Legend
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traveller wrote:
Well, Del´s Undead didnt count... this time! But i´m quite sure he will win the next painting contests anyway with his finished team :wink:
Traveller


Maybe a zombie with a green stuff penis will get a few votes :roll:

What do people really look for though? Bear in mind that say 80% of players (a guesstamate!) don't have much experience with a brush and maybe can't see "depth". Perfect shading and highlighting and detail probably don't get noticed where as a neat stripe or symbol or querky touch do get picked out. Interesting to hear about "aggressive marketing"

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 Post Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:01 am 
The Best Dressed Man in Blood Bowl
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I think the key part of it is 'Best Painted Team'. I have found that it is a common convention to choose the team that overall has the most positive effect on you; the team that you will remember the most from the look of it. This will include, to a greater or lesser degree, some or all of the following:

* The paint scheme - the choice of colours for uniform/skin/hair etcs

* The quality of paint job - the shading/highlighting/blending on the models

* Conversions - the quality and number of conversions, if they add extra uniqueness and style to the team

* The overall theme / look of the team - if the team looks like a unit, a complete working amalgamation of players all working for the same coach.

I have found after talking to alot of coaches that the team that wins the prize is the one that scores high in all of the above catagories and that tends to stick in the mind of players that have seen it.

Case in point, I was asked by 3 or four different coaches if my I was leaving my demons out for the painting prize. I have no illusions that they would have won ( they are mostly only base-coated afterall) but I do know that the uniqueness of the conversions and the models did have a big effect on guys who noticed the team...






(now all I need to do is spend some time on them doing a nice paint job :roll: )

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Last edited by dwarfcoach on Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:03 am 
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longfang wrote:
What do people really look for though?


someone who hasn't won it yet?? :lol:

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 Post Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:10 am 
The Best Dressed Man in Blood Bowl
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hoomin_erra wrote:
someone who hasn't won it yet?? :lol:


:roll:

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 Post Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:43 am 
Legend
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DC is absolutely right. The first and foremost point people look for is whether a team looks good. Oh, and whether the team has got round bases, there's really quite a few coaches who won't vote for a square base team. They may not notice perfect shading, but they will see an impressive paintjob. So Del, you can stop worrying. By the time you've finished your team no-one else will stand a chance, perfect shading and high lighting does show, even to inexpert painters like me.

Humorous conversions are scoring points too, but the reason I didn't vote for the winner is that the "humorous" conversions weren't up to my standard of humour, besides, it's supposed to be a BB team, not some carnival or zombie-stripper parade. What would be humour would be a miniature resembling JJ looking puzzled at different versions of Ze Rulez on the coaching staff.

Quite a few coaches I spoke to voted for Traveller's orcs. Sometimes stating that the paint job might not be perfect; but that together with the great conversions it was the most impressive team. Some others voted for Djenghis' team or Norse or Dave's Norse. I guess that in a field like that votes will be diffuse and aggressive marketing can pay off.

Still, Jort won fair and square. The quality of his team was decent and combined with good conversions this does make a team that stands a chance. The rest is all down to taste.

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 Post Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 10:17 am 
Da Konstruktor
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Quite a few coaches I spoke to voted for Traveller's orcs.
:D
If i would had knew this before( argh... grammar :roll: ), that my team is still "in the race", i would have repaired the helmets and and did somemore work on them... :wink: I expected Del team finished and not having any chance at all :roll:

I would like to knew, which teams were the under the first 5 ... i dont want to knew the ranking of those, just the top five or those , which made it in the painting competion! ... Like at the GD , where i told this some of the jury, too, i think, it would give the painter a good feeling and a ego boost to knew, he/she was under the tops and "just" didnt made it.

Traveller

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 Post Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:26 pm 
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I also wonder how many people actually voted. I know I didn't, mostly because I didn't have the time between matches to check out all thsoe teams scattered around the place. All my matches were pretty involving and I simply could not spare the time or energy to find all those well painted teams my self. And, frankly, I don't think I am the only one. Tim and Sputnik were in favour of 'shortlist' for this reason, but Lucy, understandably, wanted to avoid arguments who is going to be on there and who is not. My suggestion is that at a certain point during the tournament (especially tournaments of this size held venues with multiple rooms) those who think their team is in the painting competetion put them on show at a central place. And the organizers plan some extra time for the players to actually review them.


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 Post Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:59 pm 
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A few systems would work:
1) Only rate your opponents and give grades for conversion,painting skill and over all appearance of the team.
2) Have a jury decide who wins
3) Make a central display of the best looking teams chosen on day 1, make sure there is sufficient time when it's time to vote for whoever has to vote. 4
4) No more painting prices.

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 Post Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 1:21 pm 
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I would like to say something about the painting competition... after the Bubble there were some remarks about the voting, which in some cases was not serious.

Sure, Jort had quite a few mates with him... i think there were about 7-8 of us? I walked through the whole building, looking at the teams... I truly think Jort's team deserved to win... maybe he is not the best painter, but i really liked the team... it is funny and the conversions are really cool... that's why i voted for them... I think i would have voted for Del's necromantic if they would have been finished.

I don't know about the "aggresive marketing" and unpleasant remarks about the other painters... there were quite a few very good painters (Trav, Norse, Joy, Del), but i think the conversions did the trick... and making sure everybody has seen the team is also important, because not everybody goes around watching all the teams carefully...

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 Post Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:28 pm 
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hmm. sounds like there should have been a "display" period where the organizers pick the top 5 painted teams for display. then everyone votes for one of the 5. Been like that at every tourney I've been to and no one's ever had any hard feelings.

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 Post Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:35 pm 
The Best Dressed Man in Blood Bowl
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I think it may have been the nature of the venue. If I wasn't having my ass handed to me by Goblins (? :o ! :-? ? :( ! :cry: ? :P ) I'm not sure if I would've had the enthusiasm to look on all four different levels of the building for the best painted team (especially after the Herculian amount of beer I consumed :wink: ).

Gken's right, the good old 'Judges selecting the top 5 or six teams and then putting them on display' would have inspired alot more people to vote...

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 Post Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:39 pm 
Legend
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made a new thread for discussing painting competitions http://www.talkfantasyfootball.org/vie ... highlight=

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 Post Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:49 pm 
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dwarfcoach wrote:
Gken's right, the good old 'Judges selecting the top 5 or six teams and then putting them on display' would have inspired alot more people to vote...


That may be so, but we explicitly decided against it in order to give everyone a chance to be voted for, not just the few we selected. Judge's selection is not fool-proof either, and there has been a lot of criticism of that practice used on other tournaments.

However, we did not take into account the difficult layout of the venue and the large number of attending players. So next time we will probably go for a preselection, despite our reservations. The crucial point will be then to have a competent and impartial jury pick the teams...

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 Post Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:58 pm 
The Best Dressed Man in Blood Bowl
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I totally understand.

Maybe something like a simple 'invitation to present your team in the painting comp' could be awarded by judges to possibly the top 10% of the teams that attended according to the judges. This would mean a nice selection of teams could be lined up on the Sunday morning, say at about 11.15am or something, and then all participants could get a chance to see the top teams that have been brought along...


But anyway, just in case this is taken in the wrong way, you know you have a truly successfull and universally popular event if people analyse the smallest of details like this so once again thanks to all who put effort into making the Dutch Open what it is; the largest independent tourney in the world!!! :o

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