Eurobowl. Selection criteria for the teams

Yavatol · Post by **Yavatol** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:30 pm

It is hard to come up with a good system. I think the best way to go is to have some authoritative body make the decision. However, in the BB community authoritative bodies are hard to come by. The NAF comes close as at least it has some form of internal democracy. Depending on how the FIBB is organised the Italian Federation might take the same role. I advise you to go that way. As, if coaches feel frustrated by the way it is organised, at least there is an official channel to voice their complaints and through which they have at least some influence on the process.

Most countries rely on a form of despotism that works well as long as interest is not to high, but which is nearly not as enlightened as some believe it to be. Once interest rises and people are starting to take the EuroBowl more seriously (as at least some of the attending countries do) that system degenerates into an online popularity contest that is both random and unjustifiable. To be frank, it is something that has put me off from the tournament scene for a while now. It is one thing to laugh at the Germans for making a mockery of qualifying tournaments, it is something entirely different to mock people for trying to come up with a system than that is less arbitrary than TBB post counts. I know I might have held and voiced different opinions in the past, but these days I am only surprised how an otherwise intelligent and friendly bunch of blood bowl players all cry out for strong, populist leadership.

If the blood bowl tournament scene is all about playing fun games and camaraderie (which I honestly think it is), then tournaments that restrict attendance in this way have (IMHO) no place in it. That doesn't mean there is no place for the Eurobowl in its current form, but all claims to friendship and camaraderie surrounding it seem a little bit hollow.

Beppe#2 · Post by **Beppe#2** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:14 pm

Indigo wrote:Sorry, to be clear - I always think a team that wins the trophy should be allowed to defend it on "home soil". That team made the effort to come to England, they should have first go to keep it.

For later years, a new system is needed.

I totally agree with you, but it isn' going on like that... At the moment, people like Farina (winner of the trophy league in Nottingham) and Panico (winner of the dutch open) are out of the first 8 in the ranking, and consequently are out of the team!!!

P.S. Even I am out of the team

Longshot · Post by **Longshot** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:47 pm

i have to mention that i agree in some part with Yavatol and i have a decision to make this year also.
Do i change some players from my team... i know i will still choose good spirit guys but have to mention that our team last year had a good time together... and i also know some french players deserves also to be in...

difficult choice to do each year but i ll try for the best.

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:08 pm

My two Eurocents

The Eurobowl was born as a private project in order to meet guys you know from the online community. It had nothing to do with nations competing with each other. So, how good you play BB or your current ranking means nothing to me for the spirit of the EB (this includes your post count on various boards btw).

There are more than 8 coaches who might want to play at the EB from every nation, you can't please them all. Hijacking a private project only because it was named Eurobowl was the first step in destroying its spirit. If it had been originally named "Old BB-farts' Euro-Gang Bang" then nobody would have had the feeling that he had to be included bc he has a proper NAF ranking and because its a national FIFA-like event.

I don't have a problem if the Eurobowl would turn into an invitational tourney with all team captains who know each other chose the team players. It's about having fun with people you know and you want to meet again and not rankings. After all, nobody should be forced to let people come to your party when you don't know them before.

Whining about how much you deserve to be in the team should bring you nowhere, rather start meeting the guys who started the Eurobowl at international tourneys and after some time they would have asked you anyway. Gate crashing is the wrong way.

Panico · Post by **Panico** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:28 pm

narkotic wrote:My two Eurocents

The Eurobowl was born as a private project in order to meet guys you know from the online community. It had nothing to do with nations competing with each other. So, how good you play BB or your current ranking means nothing to me for the spirit of the EB (this includes your post count on various boards btw).

There are more than 8 coaches who might want to play at the EB from every nation, you can't please them all. Hijacking a private project only because it was named Eurobowl was the first step in destroying its spirit. If it had been originally named "Old BB-farts' Euro-Gang Bang" then nobody would have had the feeling that he had to be included bc he has a proper NAF ranking and because its a national FIFA-like event.

I don't have a problem if the Eurobowl would turn into an invitational tourney with all team captains who know each other chose the team players. It's about having fun with people you know and you want to meet again and not rankings. After all, nobody should be forced to let people come to your party when you don't know them before.

Whining about how much you deserve to be in the team should bring you nowhere, rather start meeting the guys who started the Eurobowl at international tourneys and after some time they would have asked you anyway. Gate crashing is the wrong way.

You don't even imagine how much I agree with you!!!
Unluckily there is all another spirit here around (I mean Italy), and that's really take us apart from the real meaning of Eurobowl...
I'll be there anyway for having fun with all people attending, also if I will not play (and that is a decision taken a long time ago, as some of you heard in A'dam in february).
But I'll be there for the spirit of it...
If anybody wants to join in rolling dices and drinking beer (and wine, this time) we all will be waiting for you!

Yavatol · Post by **Yavatol** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:59 pm

The intention behind the Eurobowl has always been a mix between being an inventational and a representational tourny. From what I heard, it has grown out of the Ramstel cup which is a tournament that originally was played to see which league Amsterdam or Utrecht was better. When the idea expanded and became a (friendly) challenge of the Belgians by the Dutch, more teams stepped in and the EuroBowl was born.

The above might not be entirely accurate but fact is that it is now treated as as a pure representational tourny on a lot of fronts. Some of the attending nations treat it this way, including the English which team rhetorics of flying the colours clearly point that way. That's not a bad thing, but it has grown to a point beyond the scope of friends getting together.

I agree that a lot of problems would have been avoided if the tournament would have been called the "Old BB-farts' Euro-Gang Bang", but you cannot blame people from misinterpreting the intentions of a private project when its online exposition, status and credentials are much larger. If it walks like a duck... The community made the Eurobowl bigger than it was intended, and that community is larger than groups of 8 friends scattered across several European countries. That's causing trouble.

It is not my intention to create bad blood, but rather to try to identify the cause behind some frustration, and suggest some solutions. For I am one that hopes that the BB community can grow bigger and more varied than a closed clique of friends. And to do that I think it is very important that we find ways for new players to partake in what might have become BB's most important event.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:38 pm

Perhaps the "Old BB-farts' Euro-Gang Bang" gang should just take the Eurobowl back then.

Let those that really want to make this a "competative" event make up their own.

RolleriÃ±o · Post by **RolleriÃ±o** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:55 pm

Yavatol wrote: It is not my intention to create bad blood, but rather to try to identify the cause behind some frustration, and suggest some solutions. For I am one that hopes that the BB community can grow bigger and more varied than a closed clique of friends. And to do that I think it is very important that we find ways for new players to partake in what might have become BB's most important event.

I agree very much with you.

That's is the idea of Fibb, helping the italian bb community to grow.

Lycos · Post by **Lycos** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:34 pm

It really is tricky isnt it? How on earth do you please all the people all of the time?

Well you can't. I put my hands up and admit I dont have the answers but I would like to think team England have at least got some kind of ground to work from. If you are one of those who will travel around to other Euro tourneys then thats a first step. You dont do that, you step no further.

Then the first tricky bit. You need to fit in with not one, but two things. Be a good player both on and off the pitch. By that I dont mean have a NAF rank of 200 coz NAF rankings DO NOT tell every story, but they can be a guide. And more important, seriously, be good player off the pitch. Man or Woman, it doesnt matter. Just be a level headed and decent person. You dont need to be a beer monster to be a good person and be popular but be someone who fits with the team.

The problem comes when, what happens when you have say 12 people who can afford to go, fit all the criterea above and want to go? Thats where it gets awkward. So I have always said pick a captain, and he makes the choice. Some will be upset....no doubt...but it has to be the way surely.

I do feel, having done it, if you travel abroad and win it, then you hold the right to retain your place. And possibly if your country finishes top 3 as well but that is totally a personal view. I am aware of Longshots comment above but I guess that was from the first year or so and it seems that most countries have moved on from that situation.

stick_with_poo_on_the_end · Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:06 pm

Euro-Gang Bang"

I think i have a copy of this on DVD somewhere....

Mordredd · Post by **Mordredd** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:30 pm

stick_with_poo_on_the_end wrote:
Euro-Gang Bang"
I think i have a copy of this on DVD somewhere....

Hmm. You say this 'tournament' originated in Amsterdam eh?

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:42 am

Lycos wrote:Man or Woman, it doesnt matter.

lol women can't play!

yashin · Post by **yashin** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:25 am

Grumbledook wrote:
Lycos wrote:Man or Woman, it doesnt matter.
lol women can't play!

I wish you repeat it in front of Margot's orcs... and let's see what she thinks about it

Going back in topic...
The question Lycos is posing is our case. Since there are a lot of good coaches in Italy (both in and out the field), there is also a big rush to take one place in the National Team. Someone is asking if there would be all this interest if the tourney were in Stockholm or in Lisboa... and that's a good question. But the fact is that we have a lot of requests this year and that last year the selection was done through National ranking (and the outcome was the maximum prize).
So keeping the winning team is a good choice, but we have to keep coherence with last year's method of choice and we are internally talking about it (as you have already noticed... I suppose

)

hoomin_erra · Post by **hoomin_erra** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 6:26 am

Every one who wants to go, puts their name on a piece of paper, and goes into a hat. (I can lend you mine if you want!!)

Draw 8 names out.

Hey Presto!! 1 Team

Yavatol · Post by **Yavatol** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:20 am

Lycos wrote: The problem comes when, what happens when you have say 12 people who can afford to go, fit all the criterea above and want to go? Thats where it gets awkward. So I have always said pick a captain, and he makes the choice. Some will be upset....no doubt...but it has to be the way surely.

Maybe with 12 that still works, but what about 16? Or 20? What happens of more people are left out than that are allowed to play. It is awkward, alright! It is always going to be the problem in the country organising that a lot of people want to show up. Winning teams defending their title is complicating the situation,.even though I can see the logic behind it.

Question for all those that want to return the Eurobowl to the old farts: does that mean that you also want to exlude new countries from showing up? The original Eurobowl had only France, Belgium, Holland, Germany, Spain and Italy (IIRC). Who let all those newbies in?