NAF Championship Best Painted Team

[Thadrin]

It was Lunchmoney.

[Darkson]

Perhaps, given that you have so many issues raised there, something should be done about it by the organisers rather than let it happen again and again and again?

Well, I wasn't there, so I've no idea what did or didn't happen this time around - I can only speak from my POV last year.
And seeing as I'm neither NAF staff, nor on the organising commitee, I'll only stick my oar in if they take up my offer to help out next year, else I'm sure they'll have enough people giving ideas in.

If you're talking about the specific issues I raised, then I have to be honest and say they really didn't enter my head at any point when we were discussing this or last years event.

And also let us players know! How hard would it have been to list the ticket numbers somewhere obvious (like in multiple locations such as the queue for dinner, next to the stage in an "on the day announcements" board in the hall, etc) rather than have people running around trying to shout them out?

great idea - why didn't you suggest that after last year? 'Cos I hadn't thought of it. Or is it because you've only just thought of it, and assume that everyone else had had the idea before?

[lunchmoney]

...
The pirate team for one, ....

The pirates were painted by the same guy that did the massive Khemri thing. We gave the choice of which he wanted in, he choose Khemri.
The other I cant comment on, as I don't know.

[Darkson]

For fear of being way out of order, I felt that there were two teams that very clearly did not deserve to be nominated.

One man's Tracy Emin is another man's 2nd hand tent.

[Buggrit]

I'm not sure Tracy Emin would make a good tent, no matter how big her flaps are!

[sann0638]

How hard would it have been to list the ticket numbers somewhere obvious (like in multiple locations such as the queue for dinner, next to the stage in an "on the day announcements" board in the hall, etc) rather than have people running around trying to shout them out?

Or given that you know where people are playing, just tell them?

[Evil Git]

This is going to sound very old fashioned and all that but if the organisers know who they want for the best painted and can't shout it out over the noise of the collected, then can't someone of the organisers just go up to that person and tell them? Hardly seems any point shouting it out if no one can hear it.

Also just a random thought, but, if you had people per reg their teams and rosters, what about those who would like to submit their team to the best painted send in a photo at that time. It might just cut down the amount of models that the organisers have to trawl through just to get to the better standard. Also if someone is half serious about best painted, there's probably a good chance they'll be able to send a picture in before hand.

[Evil Git]

Ideally though you do want to have some categories. You never know it might even make it easier for the organisers to decide

[Evil Git]

lots of stuff; see above

Perhaps, given that you have so many issues raised there, something should be done about it by the organisers rather than let it happen again and again and again? If the system doesn't work then look at WHY and try something else. E.G. this year rosters were pre-submitted and checked for accuracy (unless you're in the clique ) and the names, etc entered into Score, so registration was much slicker

@ Lunchmoney - I am suprised that the GW events team and the NAF organisers were not communicating. Surely it should all have been agreed upon, well before the event, where the judging was to take place, etc?

Best Painted Team:
We hope this will continue to be the Blood Bowl community’s flagship painting contest.

Only from a point of view of quality from the painters. As mentioned previously, trying to herd the cats on the day is too difficult and the process should have been discussed, planned for and agreed upon BEFORE anyone even arrived in Nottingham. And also let us players know! How hard would it have been to list the ticket numbers somewhere obvious (like in multiple locations such as the queue for dinner, next to the stage in an "on the day announcements" board in the hall, etc) rather than have people running around trying to shout them out?

With all this talk about EG part of me thought you wanted an evil git revival or something......

Right that's more than enough

[Pakulkan]

I also suggested some changes in the main NAFC topic.

I think NAF could contact with some 'Eavy Metal guys living in Nottingham to come and judge the best painted team? They usually could consider both, painting and modelling skills to select the best painted team. Maybe if it is not possible, a jury made by english Golden Demon painters (2-3) could help you to decide. I mean, if some of then should live near Nottingham. We could ask for their help then, I guess.

I told Pippy that NAFC is the best positioned tournament to promote a kind of "Golden Demon" of Bloodbowl, maybe making the painting contest an extra event in which players compete in different categories (teams, staff, star player) independently of the team that they selected to play. This will allow a permanent team exposition from saturday to sunday, giving the players the chance to have such an awesome collection of minis to look at and a quite important date for painters supported by the NAF.

BTW, I've bring my orc team ORC Milan as it is my best painted one (win the award in the biggest spanish tournament: Dream teams). They weren't selected even for the 10 teams final, but the thing is that refs even don't took a look on them, probably because they are not painted in extreme colours... . This was probably because there were too many teams, so the formation of an independent jury would help on that, if they just simply move around and look teams while the refs could organize at the same time.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=26101&hilit=ORC+Milan

As far I know, it happens on all tournaments, so I'm fine with. Expected even

[spubbbba]

Personally I like that the best painted is decided by the other coaches.

Rather than the prize being “best painted” I think it should be “best team”. That opens it up to interesting conversions and the theme being important. These are factors that should be considered when looking at a team.

The Golden Daemon has become incredibly bland to my eyes nowadays. I was looking through an old White Dwarf from the 90’s and whilst the standard of painting was vastly inferior there was a lot more variety of styles and imagination on show.

So I’d like it to be judged on more than just the paint job, taking into account things like if all the players have a coherent style, the display base, re-rolls markers and coaching staff and most important that they actually look like a Bloodbowl team. I have seen some teams that are fantastically painted but are just 40K or Fantasy models with weapon snips with no effort to reposition them or add things like shoulder pads. They end up looking more like a mordheim or necromunda gang.

That being said you could split it into 3 categories, best painted, best converted and best theme. Best theme would encourage unique conversions and would be judged on the idea so would open it up to those who may not have the painting and converting skills. This would risk the painting comp being a bit complicated and taking up too much time though.

[Sandwich]

That being said you could split it into 3 categories, best painted, best converted and best theme. Best theme would encourage unique conversions and would be judged on the idea so would open it up to those who may not have the painting and converting skills. This would risk the painting comp being a bit complicated and taking up too much time though.

I like the idea of best theme, but would separate it completely from the painting... so people like me with v little painting ability would have another chance to pick up a trophy. Could go to the team with best team name/player names/background fluff, maybe add in skill choices too, to open up a new avenue of creativity for people.

[Nippy Longskar]

That Orc team of Pako's is extremely good, both conversion and painting wise - if they were there and didn't get into the final 10 then I think that is an example which highlights a need for a different approach to selection.

I believe this year the shortlist selection was done while games were in progress - I think this should be avoided in future as some teams look very far from their best mid-game, and in the variable lighting of the hall.

In future I think the process should be:

1) Nominate one or two central, well lit rows of tables as the display area for teams which want to enter.

2) Invite coaches that want to to set up their team, along with ticket number, on these tables during the lunch break on Saturday (in my experience only about 20% of coaches max want to enter their team for best painted) - Announce this on the mike twice during round 1.

3) Organisers select the short list from those displayed during Sat lunchbreak.

4) During round 4, announce that the judging will take place during lunchtime, and where teams will be displayed (if space can be arrenged in the display cabinets then that would be a massive win - otherwise use the same well-lit tables with as much space around them as possible). Announce the shortlist ticket numbers and remind them to hand their teams in after the round. Announce this twice during the round.

5) When the award is handed out at the closing ceremony, say which team has won, as well as which coach.

The NAFC this year was superb, amazingly smoothly run and well organised, and I think tightening up the painting prize process as above would help to bring that element to the same level.

[Pakulkan]

When I talk about best painted for sure conversion, theme and originality should be take into account. I think best minis of CMON are good examples.

Why not the other way round? As suggested, the coaches that would enter in the final could expose their teams, then the coaches could select the best ones in their opinion and a jury could select the winner with calm.

Maybe it is another alternative.

BTW, GW ideally could provide some expositors to save the teams well presented and illuminated... but as Darkson commented in the main NAFC topic, what NAFC organizers could get from GW is certainly a mystery...

I don't want to be called for whinning. I understand time is short and there are too many teams to look at. That's why I think an independent jury will help. They could dedicate their full time to properly evaluate the job. However, one of my team mates was selected for the final even with unpainted ogres and one ogre from my human team into his team. So this part is certainly improvable... he in fact hallucinate, as he consider the team was not even finished.

About players voting, it is sad but certainly there are some issues not related with execution level that players value most. It includes usage of spectacular colours no matter if you apply them with fine shading or not. I am proud of my miniatures no matter if they win painting contests or not. But it is clear that fine conversions in order to fit team's theme and shading are not so valued by most of players than spectacular presentation and colours independently of execution. And personally I think that Painting contest is also a skill contest, and it should count. It is certainly difficult to evaluate those issues if you're not an experienced painter, so in this a jury could help.

For me the main decission is if Painting contest could (or should be) a major issue in NAFC or not. If it is just at the same level of Most TDs or Most CAS, then organizers just need to improve a bit presentation and selection. Also then player voting is fine, and all we know the issues that fit with this type of contest if you want to win. But on the other hand NAF has the chance to get a Bloodbowl painting contest as an important event by itself linked to the biggest individual NAF tournament. I think this is an opportunity to NAF to still grow and promote the game, now in the hobby way.

But, for sure, it finally will end in more work and troubles for organizers, so I think we should respect their decision. Maybe some extra support could be offered by players to organize it. In any case my aim on this is just to consider this chance.

[Thadrin]

Just so I know: who DID win?