Early Bird bonus for tournaments

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Darkson
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Early Bird bonus for tournaments

Post by Darkson »

Discussion has started in the Exiles thread over the use of an Early Bird bonus. Basically, if you got your roster in to Lunchmoney by a certain date, you got 3CL added to your roster. Then as the event got closer, the bonus went down to 2CL, then 1 Cl, then closed.
The same applied for AC if you paid in advance. This was "borrowed" from Frank's Thrudball tournament, where it was at least in use this year.

I've copied the relevant posts to this thread, a) to keep the Exiles thread clean, and b) to see if a wider discussion is needed by tournament-goers who might not be watching the Exiles thread.
Please note these posts are in order, but they're not all originally from today - I just couldn't find a way to move the posts but leave them under this opening one.

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Re: Early Bird bonus for tournaments

Post by lunchmoney »

[Posted 1st August in Exiles thread]

Just over a week left to get the early bird bonuses. So far not many people have taken advangtage of free cheerleaders on their roster. If you lose a game due to your opponent denying you a cheering fans reroll, you are going to be pis... rightly annoyed :) Get your rosters in, chaps.

And the same goes for the coaches, get your tickets bought :)

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Re: Early Bird bonus for tournaments

Post by Darkson »

So just 10 of us for both early bird bonuses?

I'm going to love the howls of anguish when someone loses a game due to a reroll their opponent got from the CL/AC. :wink:

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Re: Early Bird bonus for tournaments

Post by scs.sam »

OK - slight problem in that since I last looked at this thread on Friday March 22nd there is an early bird - I am not an early bird. My problem is that having missed the boat is that there is a 27.78% chance of a reroll based kick off and without the full whack I will most often lose these kickoffs - this is very detrimental to my entire Ogre strategy (hopefully I can finally win a Stunty cup unless Harry Potter F**ks me again).
So as I really can't play with that much disadvantage - solutions either time travel which I am cool with or the slightly more feasible how much extra cash is it going to cost me to have the full whack of 3 CL's & 3 AS's ?

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Re: Early Bird bonus for tournaments

Post by lunchmoney »

Hawk wrote:60,000...... 10k each? :lol:
Hawk has it :wink:

To be fair Sam, the bonus deadlines were clearly posted. I even mentioned it in person a couple of times (Gert bowl weekend, for eg, where Hawk paid up). The 1 AC & 1 CL bonus deadline is 1/9/13, so you can still get 1 and then put another 2 on your roster from the gold.

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Re: Early Bird bonus for tournaments

Post by Glowworm »

scs.sam wrote:OK - slight problem in that since I last looked at this thread on Friday March 22nd there is an early bird - Blah, Blah Blah ?
It's an early bird bonus......you missed it, get over it, many elf players would like the extra chance at a re-roll, so they paid early.

It's not "pay early get a bonus......or dont pay early and get the same bonus" your inability to understand a deadline is no excuse!!

Would be great to see you there, I may even bring my "additional" coach & cheerleader models for you to gaze upon in envy..... 8)

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Re: Early Bird bonus for tournaments

Post by lunchmoney »

Got Sam's roster, so he gets the Cheerleader, but still hasnt paid, so doesnt get the Coach.

The early bird bonus is now over, so any one who hasnt supplied a roster or bought their ticket yet, will not be getting it :)

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Re: Early Bird bonus for tournaments

Post by scs.sam »

glowworm wrote:
lunchmoney wrote:Got Sam's roster, so he gets the Cheerleader, but still hasnt paid, so doesnt get the
Don't suppose we have heard the end of this........
OK no you haven't but I am going to reserve my final judgement (A judgement of game changing early birds not Al's tournament) until the end of this tournament when I can see how much of an effect my missing apothecary has made (that is what making up the CL's & AC's has cost me).

I am surprised though that the early bird passes NAF sanctioning as they seem quite strict to quote from their literature :

"6) Individual rules variations in tournaments are permitted, even encouraged. This is in order to give each tournament its individual character. However this should be done with restraint, as follows:
 modifications to the prescribed costs, starting statistics and starting skills of the 24 rosters are not permitted
 core game-mechanics should not be altered
 core skill rules should not altered
 modifications should not radically affect the existing balance between races; incentives may be given to the traditionally less-competitive teams, provided this is in moderation
If you wish to introduce rules variations at your tournament, you must include this in the additional information at the point of submission. It may also help to discuss this with your RTC or NTC prior to this point. Approval is always at the discretion of the TD."

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Re: Early Bird bonus for tournaments

Post by Glowworm »

I cannot see that there is any relevance to early bird in the above quote, many tournaments give free FF (+5 at Gert for example) to reduce the instance of Fame +2 adversely effecting games, Others (Crumb for example) have no weather roll, all allowed under the sanctioning process.....

if your not happy, don't accept the change, TBH in your case it wouldn't make much difference tho' :lol:

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Re: Early Bird bonus for tournaments

Post by lunchmoney »

Got to agree with Glow here (I know, shocking, we don’t agree on anything), there appears to be nothing against giving a small early bird bonus. I advertised it well in advance and even spoke of it to several people in person, so no one can claim to not know about it.
The precedent for early bird bonuses is already set: Thrudball had an early bonus, in a similar manner. And I know of other events that give incentives (in the form of something on your team roster like a special play card, or cheerleader) to those that register unique teams. And 2 years ago I gave a free cheerleader to anyone’s team if the coach dressed as a cheerleader (3 people got that one ).

For this one I’ve just given the bonus a gradual decline the closer we get to due date. It is the individual coach’s choice to take up the bonus or not, and out 18 (at the moment) coaches, only 9 have the full bonus of 3&3.

As you’ve said, Sam, play the weekend out, and then make a critique (though if is found to be game breaking I think a good defence would be, “registered on time”). If there is legitimate reason for concern over the use of early bird bonus systems then we can take it up with our NAF RTO.

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Re: Early Bird bonus for tournaments

Post by scs.sam »

Well as I say I will play it out before passing judgement although to clarify it is Early Birds that are game changing not the idea of an Early Bird to get a few people paying early to cover expenditure I am objecting too (maybe).
If for example the first twelve people to pay were entered in a raffle for a miniature and coaches who registered on time were given a cupcake - that would be totally cool.

As for the NAF sanctioning I am merely surprised because I know in other circumstances they have been very strict like at a previous Rocket Bowl where different types of game would have been played by coaches in the same round. It is the " modifications should not radically affect the existing balance between races" bit I thought might apply but then until the weekend who knows how radically I will be affected.

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Re: Early Bird bonus for tournaments

Post by Itchen Masack »

Have no intention of helping start a rebellion, or to stir up Sam (as i see how excited he gets!), but i do kind of agree with him.

Whilst Lunchmoney is generously giving his time to organise this for us and understandably wants as much sorted in advance as possible, I'm not convinced that awarding possibly game afftecting bonuses is the best way.

From the regular players point of view, they would mainly have their rosters sorted in time I guess as they visit here often. But how would it look to a new player for example who was considering coming to the Exiles this year...

Terry Noobersson, ''So let me get this right...I've joined late so every time a 6 or an 8 is rolled on kickoff my opponent automaticially gets a free re-roll?! But that happens more often than 1 in 4 kickoffs!''

Just my thoughts. For next time :-)

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Re: Early Bird bonus for tournaments

Post by Glowworm »

Itchen Masack wrote: Whilst Lunchmoney is generously giving his time to organise this for us and understandably wants as much sorted in advance as possible, I'm not convinced that awarding possibly game afftecting bonuses is the best way.


As a tournament organiser myself I can say its not the time invested that's the issue, its the money!! My tournament is 1 day, no food provided and I still budget at least £250 to run it! That's with a cheap venue (approx. £9 per hour IIRc) If I thought id have a problem recouping that money I would definitely look at some sort of early bird bonus, 2 days at a higher class (much as I hate to say it) with food both days? you're looking at a substantial outlay that I have no doubt Al would want to break even on at least soonest. I know of 1 tournament organiser who ended up about £200 out of pocket when not enough people committed to his tourney.

2 questions I will ask:

1. How would you do it? you need to pay the venue, pay the caterers, organise (buy) the prizes, ect....where does the "up front" money come from, cannot pay with promises...

2. if your not sure its a great idea, do you have to attend? sounds harsh and for that I apologise, just cannot think of a better way to phrase it, sorry. I spoke to 1 T.O and explained why I would not be attending his tournament, he thanked me for my honesty (doubt if I was missed, it seemed a great success, which I'm happy about!!) the point I'm making is you have the choice, either accept the tournament rules, if its NAF sanctioned they should be deemed pretty solid, or keep your cash for a tournament with a system you do like...

Sorry if I'm sounding aggressive I have no intention to upset anyone, buy me a pint and we can chat more :wink: but everyone has their own ideas of what should or should not be done, if you want to try something, run a tournament, that's what I did (as I hate weather rolls) and more tournaments can only be a good thing!

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Re: Early Bird bonus for tournaments

Post by Itchen Masack »

Apologies if i have offended in any way, just wanted to add my view. I'm reluctant to start a general discussion thread mainly as this is a small thing and I certainly dont wish to spearhead a campaign against it! Partly cause I'm too lazy :p

I have entered this tourney and will abide by the rules. I havent asked for them to be changed in any way.

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Re: Early Bird bonus for tournaments

Post by Darkson »

I'm normally pretty bad at paying early, often because I forget, often as I'm skint, often as I'm paying on behalf of other ARBBLers. The Early Bird just gave me the kick in the pants to get organised.

Also, I can understand why TO's do it. I've been lucky in the past in that the hall for the ARBBL was a "charity donation", so didn't need paying in advance (even a deposit). If I'd had to pay upfront, I think I'd have asked for more payments in advance (especially as I can't send money from my Paypal account to a bank account).

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