Early Bird bonus for tournaments

[lunchmoney]

Wow. Who'd have me using someone elses idea would cause such controversy.
Apologies to those that didn't get the message. What can I say? I posted publicly and talked about it. The rules pack, and the first post on the tourney thread, was updated with the early bird bonus when I announced it.

If there is such antipathy for the system (again, that I am not the first to use), I wont use it again.

[mattwhile]

It does seem that Sir Lunchmoney is taking a little bit of flak for copying Mad Franks idea (although he may have copied it from someone else).

On topic I don't like the idea. It would put me off going to a tourney. I also like weather rolls and don't like the idea of tournies not including them.

Edit: I should point out that this isn't the reason for my non-attendance at Exiles this weekend. It's a very well run, enjoyable tourney, in my opinion.

[Itchen Masack]

I'd be disappointed if anyone is directly trying to have a go at Lunchmoney for this, I'm certainly not. He is after all providing an event for us all to enjoy. Nobody complained at Thrud. I blame Sam for not reading the thread early enough

Anyway my original post indicated my thoughts were for future tourneys only, and i personally didnt want a thread like this.

Hope that is enough to deflect any part fof the blame away from me for any annoyance this may be causing Al!

[Glowworm]

I also like weather rolls and don't like the idea of tournies not including them.
.

you will be missed at Crumb-Bowl every year......

Seriousy, Can I ask why Matt? Is it a mechanics thing? Deviation from the accepted norm? What is your objection? I am genuinely interested.

i would like you to come to Crumb, but ill not be changing the rule set.

@lunchmoney: AL, please never agree with me again, it's just not worth it!

[Joemanji]

The title of this thread is 'Early Bird bonus for tournaments' not 'Early Bird bonus for Exiles'. I assumed this was meant to be a more general discussion. My post was in response to the wider use of these things rather than Exiles in particular. I have talked to TO's in person about my feelings previously. This is just the first thread I have seen about it online.

[Glowworm]

The title of this thread is 'Early Bird bonus for tournaments' not 'Early Bird bonus for Exiles'. I assumed this was meant to be a more general discussion. My post was in response to the wider use of these things rather than Exiles in particular. I have talked to TO's in person about my feelings previously. This is just the first thread I have seen about it online.

I've discussed Exclies and Crumb-Bowl, never assumed it was about one tournament or one T.O for that matter....

Haven't seen any post vilifying anyone in particular, just some strong ( and valid) opinions being expressed.

Joe, do you see any incentive being worthwhile? thoughts on registering the race prior to the tournament? Not roster, just race...

[lunchmoney]

Ok, maybe I was just feeling a little picked on as the discussion started on my thread I felt it was aimed at me and my event, but it isnt entirely; it is aimed at the idea. I will not take any further offence.


Lets try to steer this to a positive thing
So to the idea of a way to prompt people to pay and register early.

The idea of an "on pitch" advantage is clearly causing a lot of people anguish. So what would you suggest?

A few ideas have been noted:
Offer a discount for early payment for example - would this bring more people in? It would need to to offset the less money per person. I actually did this in 2009 (or was it 2010?) I offered a lower price to those that paid in advance. It made little difference that I saw, but may be that was because the event was new and I was unknown - would it make a difference now?

Maybe offer a prize, via raffle, to the first 50% (or whatever number)? Could be good, if you were sure you were going to get enough people to finance a prize like that.
Or maybe a little freebie, like a model, to first people to pay.

[Purplegoo]

I don't think anyone is having a pop at anyone in particular at all, as Joe suggests, this is just the first time we've had a specific thread on this subject. No harm to Al at all, who I'm sure is a great TO. My non Exiles attendance has nothing to do with anything bar marriage (not a bad excuse!).

Not to answer for Joe, Glow, but registering a race is no fun either. I have several backs of envelopes to ruin in the week before a tournament with 100 weird and wonderful rosters, being kept to one race is a shame. As said above, it really takes no time at all on the day to get Score going and opponents / the TO can check rosters before most weather has been rolled.

Just my opinion. No harm to anyone.

[Loki]

The 'Early Bird' raffle for NAFC definitely encouraged me to get my cash for that in pronto. So a raffle where i had a much better than 1 in 100 chance of winning would encourage me.

You could hybridise that with your current system and give people 3/2/1 tickets for both payment and rosters for the raffle.

[Darkson]

As said above, it really takes no time at all on the day to get Score

That I disagree with - if you have to wait for the TO to add races to the names of X number of players before you can draw round 1, then pre-reg race is a good thing (note race, not roster). Anything that cuts down the amount of time before getting games going is a good thing imo.
And before anyone points out that you don't need to have the race before doing the draw, I've had and heard complaints of it not being "fair", and I've also heard of one player (though I can't confirm it) who decided which of the 6 teams he had with him he'd use once he saw what his 1st round opponents race was.


That said, other than the ARBBL Pick'n'Mix (which I insist of races before the day), I don't insist on races before hand, though the more info I can get before the Saturday morning the better.

You could hybridise that with your current system and give people 3/2/1 tickets for both payment and rosters for the raffle.

That I like - now I just need to get a prize worth doing it for for the ARBBL...

[Glowworm]

Not to answer for Joe, Glow, but registering a race is no fun either. I have several backs of envelopes to ruin in the week before a tournament with 100 weird and wonderful rosters, being kept to one race is a shame. As said above, it really takes no time at all on the day to get Score going and opponents / the TO can check rosters before most weather has been rolled.

Just my opinion. No harm to anyone.

None taken, I don't operate score, I've got a "guy" for that, as I'm rubbish at data entry, so just assumed that preloading was easier.

Can I ask, and this is not just for Sir Goo, do others choices affect yours? If several people post dwarf do you avoid Zons?

Taken a step further if you secured a bonus RR for early registration ( which, BTW, was actually discussed briefly for one tournament, but after debate was quickly dropped, after this debate thank goodness!!) would you be more inclined to take say Dark Elves, a team that would greatly benefit from a free RR?


What I'm asking is does preregistration bonuses actually influence people choices? Also do what others post team wise make a difference?

This is not a stealth " powergamer" hunt, just a genuine question, I take teams I enjoy, I'm under no illusion as to my ability ( or lack of it) for example, I'm paying Khemri at Gertbowl next year, I really enjoyed them this year and feel I can probably improve with them given time..( that will reduce the need for anyone to spam tackle at Gert next year )

[Magictobe]

My post was also not directed to one tournament but to the mechanism of changing in-game tactics to benefit early birds. It can discourage people to go and that cannot be the intention.

Give financial discount or raffle or anything else. I can understand that because I am tournament organizer myself ... but give everybody on the tournament the same chances when they start a game!!!!
(OK, you cannot cover the difference in bloodbowl talent or talent of throwing 6's so same chances is never possible ) A joke to get the tension of the subject

With this said. It does not mean that I am against giving extra skills to lower tiers because that is to narrow the gap and everybody can choose till last minute what team they want to play.

[Purplegoo]

My race choice never has anything to do with whatever anyone else takes. If someone is gaming that system, there are easier ways than huddling around the laptop for an hour of registration.

I've used Score a few times, and inputting the name of people going is a week before job; clicking Chaos and inputting xyz as a name to get things moving always seemed a five minute job to me? Some people will always be organised before hand anyway, so you're only ever doing half the field on the day. Just my experience. Even if you're starting from scratch; a 40 man field is a 10 minute job? Maximum?

[SillySod]

Me? Being a dick? How would have thought

I think you might have got the wrong end of the stick there

I meant that non-attendance only makes sense if the issue is significant enough that it would seriously bother you. Most people figure that out for themselves so it seems unnecessary to suggest non-attendance as the resolve a complaint (because, in most cases, the complaint isn't major enough to make them not want to attend, even if it bothers them a little... and if it is then they just wouldn't attend).

The comment about being a dick was just a reference to the scenario where someone attends despite the fact that the issue clearly bothers them and they don't shut up about it. That seems like the only scenario where it would be helpful to suggest that someone doesn't attend..... and that scenario happens so rarely (has it ever happened?) that recommending non-attendance felt unhelpful.

[Joemanji]

Joe ... thoughts on registering the race prior to the tournament? Not roster, just race...

It's the same thing to me. Choice of race/roster go hand in hand, and as Phil said I always have bits of scrap paper with rosters from several races around me leading up to an event.

I don't think entry is a problem at all. If you are worried about people gaming the system :

a) Don't let them look at Score.
b) Make them hand in a roster before the first round draw. You don't have to check it until after the draw.

In my experience for 20-30 man tournaments people don't arrive in one go, so adding them onto Score! one at a time on the morning is really simple. If you have names in already even more so.

And before anyone points out that you don't need to have the race before doing the draw, I've had and heard complaints of it not being "fair", and I've also heard of one player (though I can't confirm it) who decided which of the 6 teams he had with him he'd use once he saw what his 1st round opponents race was.

This is just someone being an ass. Easily solved by the above.