Pick'n'Mix discussion thread

[Darkson]

Right, it's over, the dust has settled, the victors crowned, the losers commiserated with (or belittled in ARBBL B's case ) and everything packed away....

Seems enough people enjoyed it,so, dates and locations permitting, I'm going to look into running it again next year.


But I want feedback to make it better, obviously from those that attended, but happy to hear from those that didn't attend, either because they couldn't or didn't want to (didn't like the ruleset etc.).

What worked well, what didn't, what could be improved?


What won't be changing?
1. 3-man team event - while I know a few people asked about making it a 4 man job, it's not practical, firstly for space reasons (would have to limit it to 14 teams) and secondly as I'd need to ask at least 3 people to be "spares".
2. Different races on different days - everyone seemed to like this, and the spread of races was great, so I think that worked well.

So what to do differently?

1. And the most important! I will have at least two spare players on hand to make up a team if there's an odd number. Having to do a manual draw every round was time consuming, and (especially for round 6) a nightmare. If they need to play, then they can drop in nicely. If they don't, they can help out, answer rules questions, sort out spot prizes etc.

2. Skills: Heard a few mutterings, and to be honest, I'll hold my hand up on that one - if I'm honest, not a lot of thought went in to how I was allowing skills. I think for the next time I'll still keep with the 5 (one a double), but put in a "no skills more than twice rule".

3. Rosters: I don't think it was actually a problem this time, but I think I'll say that tier3/4 can only be on a team twice.


Other than that, any glaring issues? Did the scoring system work? Were the tiers right? Was it to damn hot when canteloup turned up the heating (next time, if the same venue, he can sit the other end of the hall)?
Please be honest, as if people stop enjoying it, there's no point in me running it (and stressing for the weeks in the run up), so I'd rather make improvements now than once it's to late.

[lunchmoney]

2. Skills: Heard a few mutterings, and to be honest, I'll hold my hand up on that one - if I'm honest, not a lot of thought went in to how I was allowing skills. I think for the next time I'll still keep with the 5 (one a double), but put in a "no skills more than twice rule".

Didnt have a problem, personally, but then I performed exactly as expected, badly with Goblins and well with Skaven The skill spamming question is one for every tourney and for organiser to settle. Some people like it, some dont. But if the object is to get more variety then yes, dont allow spamming.

The hall is better than your usual place, I think: more airy and a stage (that you didnt make much use of, but it's there and I like to use and see them in use), and more parking

It was fun playing with 2 races and it was fun playing as part of a team. Not something we get to do that often.
There was certainly a tactical element to race choices as well as day choices.

3. Rosters: I don't think it was actually a problem this time, but I think I'll say that tier3/4 can only be on a team twice.

Were the winning teams from tier 2 and 3 by any chance? 2/3 combo appears to be better perforing than 1/4. Is that what you were looking for? If so then great

[Blocknroll]

Be worth doing a small tweek, with new different tourneys (as per the ACC first year it was progression) people are trying to work out the ruleset and inevitably the second year people look to what was successful the first year as a starting point. As for skills I expect the 9 blodge Amazon team(s?) were a pain, but thats not the same as saying i think you should ban it
I suppose in an ideal world you'd have an even number of 3 man teams for draw purposes?
Any value in shaving 15/30 minutes off lunch break on the sunday?
Would more people stay for the food if it was sooner after the finish on saturday?
Could the gap after round 6 be shortened somehow?
Just thinking out loud with ideas not criticisms
As others have said it was a great idea for a tourney which played out really really well.
Be interested to see how it evolves, and will hope to either bring a team next year or be available as a floating voter again

[nobby]

Ceetee, Deetee and itchen went 2/3, 2/3 1/4 which alot of teams (mine included) seemed to have gone.

I liked the skill selection as it allowed me to have block on everyone that didnt have it in me norse

One thing I was thinking of last night after was instead of having to do the draw based on teams, do it as a normal event and just add up the team scores for the final results. Just a thought to make it easier on yourself but I have n idea how score works.

[Itchen Masack]

I liked the sitting together as a team part so I'd prefer it not to be run as an individual tourney where the scores just added up at the end.

Also loved the 2 races part. Whilst playing goblins is my true love, when things go bad, 2 entire days of goblin pain can be hard to take!

And Al is right, this Scout Hut is much nicer than the old one, although having a motto of 'Look Wide' bothered me for some unknown reason

[Loki]

2. Skills: Heard a few mutterings, and to be honest, I'll hold my hand up on that one - if I'm honest, not a lot of thought went in to how I was allowing skills. I think for the next time I'll still keep with the 5 (one a double), but put in a "no skills more than twice rule".

I thought the 4+1 was pretty good letting you patch some weaknesses without unbalancing things too much. Even having taken 3x Mighty Blow; I would have no problem in a max 2 same skill coming in, I don't think it changes things that much.

3. Rosters: I don't think it was actually a problem this time, but I think I'll say that tier3/4 can only be on a team twice.

Ceetee, Deetee and itchen went 2/3, 2/3 1/4 which alot of teams (mine included) seemed to have gone.

Personally I think you could go with no team can take more than 1 of any race without changing the 'feel' of the tournament. Hard to say but... I agree with Lunchmoney, I personnally think that 2/3 was better value than 1/4 and (i may be biased here having gone 3-0-0 and not conceeded a TD) but I think Khemri were very good 'value for money' from tier 3. Saying that we came 2nd with a 2/3, 1/4, 1/4 so it can be made to work. I think there is just enough of a decision around 'do you take your favourite Tier 1 and then make do with some stuntys or take two less comfortable 2/3 choices'. It wouldn't suprise me to see some 2/3, 2/3, 2/3's if this were to run again (even with a one of each race limit).

One thing I was thinking of last night after was instead of having to do the draw based on teams, do it as a normal event and just add up the team scores for the final results. Just a thought to make it easier on yourself but I have n idea how score works.

I think this would change the feel of the day, I really enjoyed the team part and sitting togther as two teams. Making the draw closer to a "normal" event would detract from this.

[Glowworm]

I loved it......all of it.....

Nitpicking:

No one should be able to take the same race on both days, they have to use different teams.

Parking, got really tight, but the venue itself was excellent, yes, Dave needs to be at the Kitchen end next time, but that's not an issue.

Apart from those ( very minor) points, I don't think you need change much.

As I said, when this was first mentioned to me I was very sceptical, the idea didn't ring my bell at all, however I was wrong, I thought it was great, I thoroughly enjoyed it, even with my absolutely abysmal performance, and I cannot even blame the dice, mine or my opponents...

Same as the others, no criticism meant just thinking aloud!

[sann0638]

I loved it......all of it.....

This.

[Eski]

Completely random idea..

As a team themed event how about a joker card that can be used once in the tournament?

When played you can swop one your team members around to play another player in the opposing team. . Say the halflings vs dwarfs is looking a little sorry state.. So you switch to make the best of the lineup with adds or deducts bonus for winning or losing?

But generally I feel it was a fantastic setup.. Would like some more team awards for highest team TD and CAS though?

[DeeTee]

I honestly wouldn't change anything.

I think the entire set up was spot on. If anything is to be changed please don't let it be the team aspect. Sitting together as a team and playing together as a team resulted in what was for me the best example of the Blood Bowl community in action that I have been part of.

[Blocknroll]

Eski, your joker idea, do you mean during the game or before the game but after the draw is made? (im presuming here that teams were not able to say right dave's dwarfs are playing itchens gobbos, that that part was drawn too? sorry didnt really get into the team thing in detail on my own haha)

[Loki]

Eski, your joker idea, do you mean during the game or before the game but after the draw is made? (im presuming here that teams were not able to say right dave's dwarfs are playing itchens gobbos, that that part was drawn too? sorry didnt really get into the team thing in detail on my own haha)

On the day it was Swiss/Swiss on the Team/Individual match-ups.

Fairly certain what Steve means is after draw but before matches the joker would allow you to swap one of your unfavourable match-ups.

Personally I don't think that would be a good addition.

[Itchen Masack]

Sounds to me like Eski was proposing that once the team fixture is decided, the Joker playing team could then pick which of the individual coaches played who between those 2 teams.

Not a fan of that, as it would if anything encourage teams to play dwarves/chaos dwarves and lead to less Stunties.

For example I wouldn't play goblins if I knew each round the opponent had the power to pair me with dwarves each time. As its pretty much an auto loss to a half decent coach. I'd likely go the tier 2/3 pick instead.

[Blocknroll]

interesting
the chances of it happening to you every round? assuming more than one goblin team in attendance for example
i can totally see what you're saying though.
maybe Eski can explain his thinking.
The suggestion re no repetition of races in a team over the weekend at all was a good one i thought.

[Eski]

I don't know what I'm thinking most of the time

Mostly thinking about those normal ARRBL Joker Cards; where you would play it to earn extra bonus points against someone beatable..

So in a team, one joker card for the whole tournament can be played for just one match and no more; gets you to swop one coach around for something beatable; but throw in negative points if its not beatable or even against lower tiers to stop power players playing on the weaker tier teams.. or even the two lower points scoring coaches in a team can swop around

anyway.. the idea in my head I think was that the team score line for one game would be balanced out if possible, at a risk of losing more points if it doesn't pan out..