Tournament team decision

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Which roster should I play?

Poll ended at Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:39 am

Orcs
3
60%
Chaos Dwarves
1
20%
Lizardmen
1
20%
 
Total votes: 5

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Milo
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Tournament team decision

Post by Milo »

I've basically narrowed my choices down to three teams for the upcoming B7, based on both availability of minis and what I consider to be reasonably successful tournament races (and specifically, for this format, which allows only regular skills, one per game, chosen once you know your opponent's race but before you've seen their roster.) I've got nicely painted figures for all of these teams, two of which I have just finished, so I'm just really struggling to decide. I've never played any of these in a tournament format before, so I'm stepping out of my comfort level to some extent. All three rosters have 12 players, 3 re-rolls as I've built them.

Orcs
4 Blitzers
4 BOBs
1 Thrower
2 Goblins
1 Troll
3 RR
2 FF

Pros: Four players starting with block, 5 with ST4+, 2 with dodge/stunty, TTM 1-turn possibilities, relatively high armor (except the gobs)
Cons: 2 Goblins may make the team weaker and more prone to playing down a man, slowest of team possibilities
Skill progression: Generally 2x Strip Ball on Blitzers, 4x Block on BOBs, unless facing a team like Amazons which might make Tackle more valuable
Options: Drop a goblin and a FF for an Orc Lineman, but for a team who can put 5 ST4+ players on the front line, what role does he serve?

Chaos Dwarves
2x Bull Centaur
1x Minotaur
4x Chaos Dwarf Blockers
5x Hobgoblins
3x RR

Pros: Great blitzers in Minotaur and BCs, consistent front line blockers in CDs, built-in tackle for dealing with dodgy teams
Cons: Hobgobs are prone to injury, leaving this team more likely to be down a man or more; BCs have not-great AG, leaving Hobgobs as likely ball carriers, is 5 enough?
Options: -1 CDB, +1 Hobgob, +3 FF
Skill progression: Sure Hands on a Hobgob or two, Break Tackle on Bull Centaurs/Mino, Block on BCs

Lizardmen
1x Kroxigor
6x Saurus
5x Skinks
3x RR

Pros: Lots of strength and mobility, dodge/stunty on fast players, 1-turn chain push score possibility,
Cons: 5 players with ST2/AV7/+1 on injury, no ball carrying ability outside those players
Options: -1 Saurus, +1 Skink, +2 FF OR -1 RR, +1 Skink OR -1 RR, +1 Apoth, +1 FF
Skill: Break Tackle/Frenzy/Block on Sauruses, probably 2x each

Anything I missed? Any recommendations?

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Re: Tournament team decision

Post by Joemanji »

What are the tournament rules?

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Re: Tournament team decision

Post by Milo »

Pretty simple TV110 resurrection style 2-day 6-game tournament:
  • All teams must be rookie teams with a starting value of 1.100.000 gold pieces (and not less, so no inducements). Keep in mind that a FF of 0 is now allowed.
    The latest ruleset of 2010 will be used. This is the “BB Competition Rules Pack”.
    You can use the 3 new races: Slann, Chaos Pact, Underworld Teams.
    Wizards, Star Players, Freebooters or other inducements are not allowed.
    Halfling teams are allowed to buy their master chef for 100.000 gold pieces. He is a permanent part of the team and useable in all 6 matches.
    The coaches will be paired using the Swiss format, i.e. based on their ranking after each round. You'll never play the same coach twice.
    All casualties that have been inflicted on your team are wiped away at the end of the game.
    Before each game (after you know the opponents race) you may pick a normal skill (no doubles) and give it to one of your players. Only one skill per player maximum and only skills from their available skill categories.

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Re: Tournament team decision

Post by Joemanji »

Milo wrote:All teams must be rookie teams with a starting value of 1.100.000 gold pieces (and not less, so no inducements)...
Before each game (after you know the opponents race) you may pick a normal skill (no doubles) and give it to one of your players. Only one skill per player maximum and only skills from their available skill categories.
Typing quickly at work...

Lizardmen are not great in OSPG, they need a few Block to reach proper effectiveness. Orcs & CDs are a better bet as they start with plenty of good skills. But Frenzy Saurus are a no-no in my book. 4 Block then you start thinking about Break Tackle or something else.

You don't want two Goblins on Orcs: one is great, two difficult to protect. You don't need to duplicate Strip Ball (most people don't take even one). Tackle or MB on Blitzers are very useful.

CDs absolutely need all 6 CDs. That will protect the fragile Hobgoblin. There are two ways to fit this is : 2RRs or drop the Minotaur. Good skills are one Break Tackle Bull, one Block Bull, one Sure Hands Hobgoblin, multiple Guard CDs. Again no need to duplicate Sure Hands (plan A is to use it once per drive). Break Tackle Mino is probably not optimal, he is a bit of a liability to be honest.

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Re: Tournament team decision

Post by Milo »

Joemanji wrote:Lizardmen are not great in OSPG, they need a few Block to reach proper effectiveness. Orcs & CDs are a better bet as they start with plenty of good skills. But Frenzy Saurus are a no-no in my book. 4 Block then you start thinking about Break Tackle or something else.
Good advice there. I've seen conflicting advice about Frenzy -- some people say that having the chance to block twice gives you better odds (as a higher ST player) to knock someone down than just having Block. That was my motivation for taking it, but Block is certainly a reliable staple.
Joemanji wrote:You don't want two Goblins on Orcs: one is great, two difficult to protect. You don't need to duplicate Strip Ball (most people don't take even one). Tackle or MB on Blitzers are very useful.


I was expecting my typical team on the field to be 4 Blitzers, 4 Bobs, Troll, Thrower, Goblin. The second goblin was just to make sure I had a backup for when the first one gets hurt. Would you suggest replacing it and a FF for an Orc Lineman?

Strip Ball has always paid for itself in tournaments I've been in during the past, but admittedly, that's with a Skaven team that spends most of it's time on defense. I could definitely see Tackle as an alternative, good both for getting rid of blodging ball carriers AND for making it harder for people to sneak through your lines.
Joemanji wrote:CDs absolutely need all 6 CDs. That will protect the fragile Hobgoblin. There are two ways to fit this is : 2RRs or drop the Minotaur. Good skills are one Break Tackle Bull, one Block Bull, one Sure Hands Hobgoblin, multiple Guard CDs. Again no need to duplicate Sure Hands (plan A is to use it once per drive). Break Tackle Mino is probably not optimal, he is a bit of a liability to be honest.
Still working on painting two CDs, so that was part of my hesitance. Also, hesitant about taking too many CDBs because I'm assutomed to playing very mobile teams, but I'll take it under advisement. What skill would you take before the first game? Sure Hands? Guard? Break Tackle?

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Re: Tournament team decision

Post by Joemanji »

Frenzy without Block is just a turnover machine / reroll sink.

I'd swap one Goblin for a Linemen yes. Strip Ball on Orcs is very different from Strip Ball on Skaven/WEs. I prefer to have a skill that helps every turn.

CDs skills depends on your roster and who you face in each game. Sure Hands if you take the 2RR roster or face WEs game one, otherwise Break Tackle Bull for me. If you have 3RRs then Sure Hands can wait until needed, following Block Bull. Then Guard. Juggernaut Mino is an option if you use him a lot, but that generally isn't wise.

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Re: Tournament team decision

Post by Milo »

Wound up going with the Lizardmen, but I wasn't really that happy with them. It's too easy to break al the skinks and wind up with no ball carriers, as I did in two of the six games I played. Still, I won once, tied three times (usually being caught up to on the last turn of the game) and lost twice (usually on the last turn of the game), and never lost by more than 1 TD.

My experienced showed me that Lizardmen have a tendency for a late game swoon, especially if -- as mentioned before -- they run out of ball carriers. Without Break Tackle (I took 6x Block), my Saurii could be effectively immobilized by a simple zombie (or otherwise tough cheap player) for long periods of time, and once the Skinks were gone, there was nothing more I could do.

I didn't like that feeling of helplessness, so I think I'll shelve the Lizardmen now that I've played them. They're my son's favorite team anyways.

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Re: Tournament team decision

Post by Joemanji »

True, but one of the key skills in coaching Lizardmen is protecting the Skinks. I more often run out of Saurus (never getting blocked is better than AV9) than Skinks.

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Re: Tournament team decision

Post by Milo »

I freely admit that I may just not be a good enough coach to handle them yet. I did learn a lot about them during the course of the six games I played. But there are other teams that have less easily-exposed weaknesses. Also, as you mentioned, tourney rules that allow starting with skills may be better suited for lizards.

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