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 Post subject: Re: Skill Restrictions - TO's what are you trying to achieve
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:14 pm 
Emerging Star
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I was going to say something similar also, but from an attendee's standpoint. Repeatable skills is just one factor here, with the others being GCs available and the whole skill package (stacking, timing of allocation etc.)

The skill package forms one part of my decision to go to the tournament, as someone who doesn't have all the time in the world at the weekends to attend every tournament I'd like to. Thrudball, for example, has a really interesting set of choices and tiering system whereby I've ended up around the top tables with Chaos (think I finished 9th, due to some dodgy SoS shenanigans - SoS works much worse if you end up playing people who don't compete in all 6 games (I had two of them that year)) and I would have done ok, hopefully, with Vampires last year (I was the only person to beat the champ all weekend) if I hadn't had to abandon after 4 games.

For me, flagship events ought to have a pretty standard skill package, which ought to be repeatable and repeated (and they do tend to do this, to be fair). For the regionals, variety is the spice of life. As long as there's a reasonable basis behind it, all is fine. As Joe states, part of the interest in going to a tournament is picking a team that might do well at it under the specific set up of that tournament.

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 Post subject: Re: Skill Restrictions - TO's what are you trying to achieve
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:18 pm 
Super Star
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I had this conversation with the guy who ran a local tournament, this year he limited how many times any given skill could be taken to four (out of seven total extra skills). I don't think he was targeting any specific team, last he just felt like there were a few too many spammy teams (not just Dwarves, also dodge-heavy elven teams, block-heavy Orcs, and so on, iirc). My feeling is that the organizer just felt that this was boring and wanted to encourage more diverse skill choices.

There were also Dwarves (and Lizards!) in attendance. The Dwarves just took more MB and decimated my poor Dark Elves. Lizards took as much Block as they could, some Break Tackle and I think one Saurus with Frenzy.

Small sample size in a small tournament of course.

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 Post subject: Re: Skill Restrictions - TO's what are you trying to achieve
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:36 am 
Star Player
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Boudica IV didn't limit skill choices. We altered the amount of skills that various tiers of team could have to try and make them more competitive e.g. Ogres could have more skills than wood elves.

It was pretty good with a variety of builds. We did have dwarves and elves but no real spamming of a single skill.

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 Post subject: Re: Skill Restrictions - TO's what are you trying to achieve
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:56 pm 
Walking on the beaches...
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The main issue I have with the limiting to two of any skill is when it is accompanied by the tiering system for amount for skills.

I have been a long time believer in Dwarves are not tier 1 if they are only allowed 2 of anyone skill, if they can spam guard they are 100% tier 1.

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 Post subject: Re: Skill Restrictions - TO's what are you trying to achieve
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:33 pm 
Rapdog - formally known as Pippy
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At Monkeybowl I restrict duplicates to three, though it has previousy been restricted to two. There is race and skill tiering too; all quite complex. My main reason for the restriction is that I didn't want to see teams with 11 piling on, 11 dirty player etc., which you can do because some skills are very cheap. 7 tackle or 9 wrestle (mid tier) would also be possible but odd, perhaps aesthetically displeasing. Hmm...

At UKTC, though I do tier the races moderately, I don't restrict duplicates. I’m purely aiming for simplicity here in what has been a big tournament with various levels of experience. Maybe this is the flagship thing. With the tiering I'm aiming for a little variety, hoping to avoid stacks of teams consisting of Woodies, Undead, Lizzies, Amazons (but that's an aside).

Agree that duplicate restriction probably does hinder some teams especially dwarves but also various other stuff lacking the basics like Chaos, Pact, Necro, maybe high and pro elves. Plays into the hands of undead and woodies. I think this point was made about Ochil Bowl by Garrick.

But after all my musings and ramblings I'd definitely want to see the variety continue, over any attempt to create a balanced set of restrictions favouring all races equally. I don't think that's really possible, or desirable.

From my point of view I think this conversation is a little different to the bonus point debate. There are more potentially problematic bonus points systems out there than there are problematic skill sets. And I'm not sure duplicate restriction is a 'problem' per se.

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 Post subject: Re: Skill Restrictions - TO's what are you trying to achieve
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:49 pm 
Walking on the beaches...
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I agree Pipey it isn't a problem, what I don't like is when you effectively punish certain teams twice in a tournament setting by making them tier 1 (less skills or less money to build team) and then limit the spam of guard. This means Dwarves, Chaos Dwarves and potentially Zons are almost noncompetitive, or certainly not against the other tier one teams.

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 Post subject: Re: Skill Restrictions - TO's what are you trying to achieve
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 1:12 pm 
Super Star
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When do we get to talk about banning Leader? :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Skill Restrictions - TO's what are you trying to achieve
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 1:55 pm 
Power Gamer
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Yeah that is daft, have a word with your CC pals please! :wink:

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