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 Post subject: Re: NAF Sanctioning at events with none NAF registered coach
 Post Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 4:56 pm 
Da Spammer
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Wulfyn wrote:
Except you have absolutely zero evidence of that Darkson,

Except for my own experience of my club mates (at least 6 of who played at least one tournament before becoming a member), and other players that I met that, at first, only played in the Spiky Open in Reading, but carry on.

Quote:
So you can argue with frogboy all you like but he's spot on here with regard to those people he played. It is their opinion he is relaying to you, not his own. That's the point you are missing.

Which goes back to the point I made back on page 1, which boils down to "tough, them's the breaks". (And yes, I can say that, as 5 "lost" wins at a major trumps his 3 "lost" wins at Long Bomb Brawl. ;) )

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 Post subject: Re: NAF Sanctioning at events with none NAF registered coach
 Post Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 5:00 pm 
Legend
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sann0638 wrote:
frogboy wrote:



Suggesting ideas is fine. Getting involved is fine. Criticising those who give loads of time, energy and money is less fine.


Mate come on now. How can you ask for ideas and not discuss something which is broken. I didnt critisise you or anyone at the NAF. If the website is old and someone wants to say so then so be it. Stop taking it personal.

I made a suggestion, change the website. Do something new. Dont accuse me of something I'm not.

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 Post subject: Re: NAF Sanctioning at events with none NAF registered coach
 Post Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 5:03 pm 
Da Spammer
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frogboy wrote:
I made a suggestion, change the website. Do something new. Dont accuse me of something I'm not.

Where do you think thenaf.net (the bit before the member's pages) came from?

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 Post subject: Re: NAF Sanctioning at events with none NAF registered coach
 Post Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 5:06 pm 
Legend
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Darkson wrote:
Wulfyn wrote:
Except you have absolutely zero evidence of that Darkson,

Except for my own experience of my club mates (at least 6 of who played at least one tournament before becoming a member), and other players that I met that, at first, only played in the Spiky Open in Reading, but carry on.

Quote:
So you can argue with frogboy all you like but he's spot on here with regard to those people he played. It is their opinion he is relaying to you, not his own. That's the point you are missing.

Which goes back to the point I made back on page 1, which boils down to "tough, them's the breaks". (And yes, I can say that, as 5 "lost" wins at a major trumps his 3 "lost" wins at Long Bomb Brawl. ;) )


Darkson can you not see that telling someone "thems the breaks" when then are clearly frustrated about a situation is wrong? Your all about not wanting to put people off tournements and then come out with this!!?

Seriously why even both comenting if its just negitive.

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 Post subject: Re: NAF Sanctioning at events with none NAF registered coach
 Post Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 5:11 pm 
Kommissar Enthusiasmoff
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frogboy wrote:
I just wish someone would step up who could action change.


This is the point where I started to take it a little personally, FYI. I know I shouldn't, but people forget that organisations are just groups of individuals.

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 Post subject: Re: NAF Sanctioning at events with none NAF registered coach
 Post Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 5:34 pm 
Da Spammer
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frogboy wrote:
Darkson can you not see that telling someone "thems the breaks" when then are clearly frustrated about a situation is wrong? Your all about not wanting to put people off tournements and then come out with this!!?

Seriously why even both comenting if its just negitive.

Because you are not a special case - it's not like you're the only person this has happened to, and you won't be the only person this happen to in the future.
Unless you make the decision to only go to events where the TO insists every player is a NAF member (and I'm not sure if any exist, or even if that's allowed?) then it is a risk you take.

And if you're all about not wanting to put people off tournaments can't you see that your obsession on your ranking and making everyone a member (in name if not in actuality) is even more off-putting?

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 Post subject: Re: NAF Sanctioning at events with none NAF registered coach
 Post Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 5:36 pm 
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Darkson wrote:
Except for my own experience of my club mates (at least 6 of who played at least one tournament before becoming a member), and other players that I met that, at first, only played in the Spiky Open in Reading, but carry on.


Hang on, you're basing your entire opinion on what the Blood Bowl community thinks of the value of NAF membership on 6 people from one club? Jesus wept.


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 Post subject: Re: NAF Sanctioning at events with none NAF registered coach
 Post Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 5:38 pm 
Da Spammer
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Wulfyn wrote:
Darkson wrote:
Except for my own experience of my club mates (at least 6 of who played at least one tournament before becoming a member), and other players that I met that, at first, only played in the Spiky Open in Reading, but carry on.

Hang on, you're basing your entire opinion on what the Blood Bowl community thinks of the value of NAF membership on 6 people from one club? Jesus wept.

Hang on, you're basing your whole rebuttal on your reading fail. Jesus wept.

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 Post subject: Re: NAF Sanctioning at events with none NAF registered coach
 Post Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 6:12 pm 
Kommissar Enthusiasmoff
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OK, here is the situation:

1. Frogboy has suggested it being compulsory that people should be NAF members. This is very unlikely. We need to work harder with new TOs to get NAF representation at tournaments to "sell the idea", but this involves individuals going to the tournaments.
2. The suggestion has been made about dummy opponents. I'll look into this, as we are reviewing the website at the moment.
3. Badges etc for tournament wins. Completely agree. Looking into this.
4. The suggestion that the NAF is irrelevant? I understand the viewpoint, the rankings are a bit silly. But having a permanent record of games is nice, as is making it easier to find opponents, and I stand by everything I wrote in the link.

Any more suggestions will be taken forward, or explained why it's not possible/desirable.

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 Post subject: Re: NAF Sanctioning at events with none NAF registered coach
 Post Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 11:38 am 
Super Star
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Darkson wrote:
Vanguard wrote:
Yes, but that's not the point. As TO you have their PayPal email address which could be included in the results sent to the NAF in place of a NAF ID. This isn't about NAF registration but tournament results recording.

You'd still need to get their permission to share their details with the NAF - or are you quite happy for (say) your phone company to share your details with car dealerships?

I'm not convinced that's true, sharing of information where necessary is fine. Presumably you don't have an issue with Amazon sharing your address with delivery companies for example? There are valid reasons, where information is used responsibly and not abused, that are perfectly fine.
Additionally, the TO of a NAF sanctioned tournament is, to some extent, representing the NAF. Signing up in the first place seems like enough consent to me.
Finally, as I said, using email was just a suggestion to allow a coaches records to be linked across tournaments even if they're not NAF members. If someone feels particularly strongly, the TO can always file it under nomail@leavemealone.com.
Darkson wrote:
And you're missing the fact that I, as a NAF member since 2003, or you, or Sann, or Joe Bloggs who signed up yesterday, can choose not to have my games ranked - are you trying to force me to have them ranked against my will?

Don't think anyone was suggesting that. The original suggestion was that all matches should be recorded, regardless of NAF membership. If you choose to enter a tournament without your NAF membership then the match would still be recorded but not linked to your personal results and so not affecting your ranking.
frogboy wrote:
I would love to see records for Casualties, Touchdowns, Fouls and I'm sure there are others who would suggest things too.

In theory, the TD part should be feasible as we know scores are recorded for matches, the other stuff likely isn't held by NAF. Even then, the Most TD award doesn't always go to the coach with the most TDs. So really, you're looking at a separate set of records where TOs can specify awards and record a winner against them. Some awards will be common (Winner, 2nd Place, Most TDs etc) some tournaments delight in unusual and unique awards which requires some customisation and increases the complexity. A good idea though and I'd be willing to help if the NAF consider it.


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 Post subject: Re: NAF Sanctioning at events with none NAF registered coach
 Post Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 2:34 pm 
Legend
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Ok had to take a break from this discussion. Apologies for causing offence. Hope you can all except that.

I think the orignal question and where its going now is different. Let me clear up one thing though. It was only my intention to ask the question originally as i hadnt come accross non NAF ranked players before and as my own tournement is approaching wanted some ideas how to deal with it or get the NAF involved.

I dont think evreything ive said has been clearly been understood though and due to my slightly scatty brainstorming ideas (thinking/writting out aloud) possibly.

I did leave a thread up with a poll on the NAF forum but looks like only 6 people have voted so far and with only a handful of people replying here for whatever reason, i'm not sure i would like to be the cause of people who clearly do this work in their own time to take on a massive project like this.

Not only would it mean change to the website but also mean a change to Score and to how TO's record results, meaning more work for everyone involved.

I probaly didnt make it clear that i do appreciate the NAF and the hard unpaid work done by its volunteers and TOs around the World. It is what has held Blood Bowl together for so long, of which i am a fan.

Perhaps we can discuss this with the intention of only planning, not expecting change. These things take time.

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 Post subject: Re: NAF Sanctioning at events with none NAF registered coach
 Post Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 12:39 pm 
Legend
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I stopped playing tournaments many years ago mainly due to real life just getting in the way but also because I began to hate the forced "You pay more unless you join the NAF" crap that was going on. It was the bullshit excuse that they wanted people to join the NAF so that matches can be be recorded but personally it's totally irrelevant to me what your precious ranking is so don't charge me more to join your tournament. I rapidly went off the NAF in the mid 2000's when they outright couldn't justify or tell people what they did with the money they recieved from members and had a very closed financial book.

Now the above might have changed in the last decade, but the NAF was supposed to be for and about the community, not funding prizes for tournaments and making new dice each year. When they offered zero impact on the BB community outside tournaments and those tournaments would start getting pissy with people who weren't members then I stopped caring about the NAF and tourneys. It's a shame and it might be better now but this thread hasn't given me hope.

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 Post subject: Re: NAF Sanctioning at events with none NAF registered coach
 Post Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 12:45 pm 
Legend
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Vanguard wrote:
I'm not convinced that's true, sharing of information where necessary is fine.


Actually that's not true, the data protection act which covers all individuals within the UK is pretty damn strict on what you can and cannot do with anyones personal information regardless of whether you are an individual or organisation.

Unless a person agrees (ie in your Amazon situation the person has agreed for the use of delivery) then a company or organisation cannot share any information about a person that can be used to identify them (name, address, DoB, email) without the consent of that person.

There's no grey area, you cannot.

Source: Work in a super sensivite DPA/Data Goverance company and we regularly have to go through the training/refresher courses every few months.

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