Rosters in advance....

[fromherashes]

It’s immeasurably easier to do it with digital files than it’s is to do from someone’s chicken scratch handwriting...

But you still dont need it in advance for your meta review.
Sorry, you have not convinced me either.

It’s a lot easier to get it in general if you ask for it in advance. After the tournament you’re much less likely to get them from attendees.

To be honest, you don’t like it, I can’t see any reason why you wouldn’t. How about you convince me?

I don’t buy the whole “I can’t commit ‘til late” thing either as I, for one, would happily take a last minute attendees roster the night before.

[lunchmoney]

So you get a roster the night before, what does that achieve? Nothing.
As for not buying the late notice please see the example I have above, which is a real world example. I might have been able to get to Foul Bowl (barring that it is now sold out) but I honestly won't know until the morning of the event. The decision is out of my hands as I can't submit a roster in advance to a an event I don't know I'm going to.

And adding to convince you? I don't need to, I'm not in the group of the TOs making the change.


In all honesty I'm sorry I asked.

[Darkson]

The decision is out of my hands as I can't submit a roster in advance to a an event I don't know I'm going to.

Why? What is stopping submitting a roster to an event you might be able to make?

"As discussed, I can't commit to [Event XXX] until the morning/day before/whatever, but if I can make it, here's the roster I would be taking."

Job done, and any good TO would understand, especially if you've explained why you can't commit.

[lunchmoney]

That's a fair comment.
I have submitted a roster to Jip for Foul Bowl, in the remote chance I can go.

[fromherashes]

That's a fair comment.
I have submitted a roster to Jip for Foul Bowl, in the remote chance I can go.

There, glad that’s solved. There are loads of other people out there with kids/partners who work weird shift patterns/people who have other “life gets in the way” issues but I’ve yet to find a TO that isn’t flexible enough (including myself) to help out someone who might want to play.

[lunchmoney]

There, glad that’s solved.

I didn't say I agree it's needed.

[fromherashes]

There, glad that’s solved.

I didn't say I agree it's needed.

There’s really no reason not to either, and the only one you have given has been circumvented and removed as an obstacle There’s also been a bunch of good reasons why TOs like it (whether you agree with them or not is specific to you, but you do seem to be in a minority here and I’ve not interacted with anyone who’s had a problem with it for my tournament, so it’s non-existent in my sample area).

If a TO won’t make any effort to make their tournament as inclusive as possible then that’s their problem not yours (if you don’t ask, you don’t get an answer). We always have a two person team so even a late drop out or non-commitment to playing means we still have someone focussing on Score/results and rules questions so it would never be a problem for us.

Hope the job situation sorts itself out though, been there and can relate.

[Pipey]

Wow this seems to have blown up into a storm, not sure why?

Don't see any indication for submission to be mandatory across tournaments. It's TO's prerogative really.

From my point of view I've asked for it at UKTC because the rules have been a little more complex the last couple of years, plus it's a large event with lots of levels of experience and understanding of the rules. Also I don't want to see someone's tournament being affected by a roster which wasn't added up properly. It's happened once or twice and I'd rather it not happen again.

I've never asked for rosters up front at Monkeybowl. Never had any complaints. If a TO doesn't want pre-submission I see no issue personally.

[Darkson]

Erm, weren't you a ref at the tournament that Darkson refers to above?

Cant remember, dont know which tourney he's referring to.

Missed this.

You were, and iirc the TO takes (as I have in the past) the view it's the opponent's responsibility to check the rosters, meaning the error went unnoticed until after the event.
Both Moodygit and myself, as we were playing the same roster as each other, had an error on ours, but Moody's was noticed by his opponent (Tempest ) before game 1 started, and he let me know so we corrected it beforehand - my opponent hadn't noticed the error at this point.

(Again, I hold no grudge to the coach or the TO, it just hurt a little at the time but I've realised that if it had been noticed, at any point, then rounds/opponents would have been different and I may not have done as well as I did.)

[Darkson]

And there's already a deadline in all tournaments for roster submission (i.e. game 1) so what is the downside for players if a TO wants the rosters at an earlier time? Unless the deadline is ridiculously early ("I want the rosters for ARBBL 2020* next week!") then what does it matter?

Does having to decide your roster by a Thursday rather than a Saturday really inconvenience a coach? And if so, is that inconvenience worse than someone's roster having an error that isn't discovered until late/at all?

And yes, I've had a couple of errors at least at ARBBL - one was discovered for game 3, but the coach had lost both of his games so no foul, and the other the opponent said the error had had no bearing on the game (as the skill hadn't been used) and refused to take the win - both 'should' have been spotted before game 1 but weren't, and I as the TO had only checked to see that everyone had the right number of extra skills, not what they were.



The other point, and I've ever only heard this happening once (at an event I was at), is someone changing skills between rounds, though it was a new (tournament) player, so there was confusion on whether it was a misunderstanding of the rules or a deliberate attempt to cheat. With some tournaments having skills upfront, or at least chosen up front, having all the roster submitted beforehand means any issue like this can be easily checked.
A TO can even print, or upload if more tech-savvy than me, the rosters so anyone can check them (once all submissions are in and the event has started).

* There is no ARBBL 2020 planned, just using it as an example.