Chaos Teams- Ways to Improve

carnage4u · Post by **carnage4u** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 8:44 pm

Hello,
I dont think that the current state of chaos teams is balanced very well. I feel with the new teams out that chaos is just one of the bunch with no real reason to take.

here are some ideas i have to make chaos better

had a couple idea for chaos team,

First one was rather straightfoward.

simply keep the chaos/beastman options
add the chaos mauraders 6 3 3 7 block General for 50k 0-12
sure they are basically norse lineman, but since the norseman are bascially from the north they fit in.

I would like to see the re-rolls cost 60k instead of 70k, but i understand that re-reolls represent how easy a team is in training and chaos should have a little less teamwork there.

Second

i think chaos warriors/beastman should be able to pick physical skills on any roll, not just a reroll. I think they should be able to be touched with mutations easier then that since they are closer to the gods of chaos and such.

Third

I am fairly confident that chaos warriors should simply be able to have 0-6 instead of 0-4... with the amount of strenght on other teams now.. Lizardman.Khemri and such. I think the chance to have up to 6 chaos warrriors is not that crazy. since it would take a while with the cost anyway of chaos warriors

sthese are not crazy changes, just small tweaks to the team, that I think would make enough changes...

More ideas would be left for futher posts and have more changes.. but i like these simple changes that I dont think really effect the team in any radical way

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 10:08 pm

I do not believe Chaos need a leg up in any way whatsoever.

The entire team has access to strength skills and mutations and every player can blitz with ST4.

They're a different style of play, certainly, but in no way weaker for it.

carnage4u · Post by **carnage4u** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 11:02 pm

i agree they have a nice selection of options to pick from.
However with the changing style of warhammer and the way the armies are divided up some sort of change should be made.

what I would like most is the chaos maurders.
they aren't much with stats and are fairly weak. I dont think they give chaos team any unfair advantage.

I agree also that they need to be played different. I play wood elves and and chaos mostly. I am going to try to add a 3rd team to my collection soon, but I think chaos can get knocked around fairly easy by a lot of the new teams and it just seems odd to me.

the fact that beastman can blitz for a 4 str doesn't justify the team having no other skills to start.

the other thing I really would like which i mentioned before, but not in the correct way meant.

I feel when chaos gains a skill INSTEAD of rolling they simply pick a physcial trait. so that takes away the chance of any rolls or +1 to any skill.

I think the addition of those 2 things would keep the flavour of chaos more current and interesting.

The only other idea i have is to really redo the team lineup completely to stay current with the beastman/chaos army divided up, but I dont think anyone really like when teams are competely redone like that.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Tue Oct 01, 2002 9:30 am

carnage4u wrote:i agree they have a nice selection of options to pick from.
However with the changing style of warhammer and the way the armies are divided up some sort of change should be made.

No, they don't at all. Bloodbowl suffers enough from trying to keep up with Warhammer development. It's not subordinate to Warhammer, it's not the same game, some would argue it's not even the same world.

what I would like most is the chaos maurders.
they aren't much with stats and are fairly weak. I dont think they give chaos team any unfair advantage.

Then why add them at all? This seems to run contrary to your argument that Chaos need a helping hand. It leads me to believe that this is not what you're concerned with at all; rather, you're more interested in the flavour of the team. What I suggest is that you use Marauders with helmets as Bestmen on your team. Bring them to a game with me and I won't baulk.

I agree also that they need to be played different. I play wood elves and and chaos mostly. I am going to try to add a 3rd team to my collection soon, but I think chaos can get knocked around fairly easy by a lot of the new teams and it just seems odd to me.

New teams: Lizardmen, Amazons, Norse are we talking here? I've seen no evidence of that at all.

the fact that beastman can blitz for a 4 str doesn't justify the team having no other skills to start.

Plus access to strength skills, plus access to mutations. They start for free with something most other players will never get.

I feel when chaos gains a skill INSTEAD of rolling they simply pick a physcial trait. so that takes away the chance of any rolls or +1 to any skill.

Try facing off against a chaos team that, after 6 games, has 6 players with Claw, or 6 players with Foul Appearance.

I think the addition of those 2 things would keep the flavour of chaos more current and interesting.

The only other idea i have is to really redo the team lineup completely to stay current with the beastman/chaos army divided up, but I dont think anyone really like when teams are competely redone like that.

Exactly, what is the point? "staying current" as you put it is a false goal. Warhammer changes its face every year or two for one simple reason - it sells miniatures. Butchering the rules of bloodbowl that many people fight long and hard to keep balanced just to keep up with the Joneses is damaging and pointless.

If you're really getting bored with your Chaos team then mod up another one and use existing stats for Chaos or Norse. Bring in some Marauder figures or whatever takes your fancy and present something that looks new and interesting. Try out the Chaos Pact rules for a change of pace.

For nuffle's sake though, lets not start down the "I'm bored, let's change the rules" path.

McDeth · Post by **McDeth** » Tue Oct 01, 2002 10:12 am

Chaos are a difficult team to start with but after a handfull of games can become as good as any other side.

If you feel that you don't like the starting skills, then play the new Chaos Pact Team instead, that should give you plenty of options.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Tue Oct 01, 2002 10:30 am

carnage4u wrote:Hello,
I feel with the new teams out that chaos is just one of the bunch with no real reason to take.

Isn't this exactly as it should be? Every team has its own flavour - but are balanced - and coaches pick a team based on liking for the team's style of play and fluff.

Chaos have got access mutations which means although the starting team isn't great their potential is better than anyone else's.

They can have 4 ST4 players, plus the big guy - making them one of the stronger races - and unlike the other strong teams have AG3 across the board.

Ian

martynq · Post by **martynq** » Tue Oct 01, 2002 11:05 am

It's probably also worth pointing out that Balrog recently won the first season of the MBBL with his Chaos team. This suggests to me that a good coach can do very well with Chaos without needing to give them an extra bonuses.

Cheers,
Martyn

carnage4u · Post by **carnage4u** » Tue Oct 01, 2002 2:47 pm

I am glad i got some responses to my topic. My ideas seemed to be nicely taken and shown why in almost every case why ideas seem unbalanced.

I dont know how to cut and paste so others text look nice and separated.

but I still like the idea of maurders if for flavor only. I understand your point about them in helmets as replacements though and I will talk to the people in my league about that idea.

Also its not that I'm bored, lets change some rules. I just think chaos as is keeps the flavour of chaos. I understand why you dont like the idea of changing blood bowl teams to keep up with the constant rules of warhammer but it shouldn't be impossible to do either.

someone mentioned the chaos pact team
I thought with the new living rulebook allies are no longer an option for anyone.

I dont have bb #3 but i have seen the stats online.. do they bring back allied rules?

anyway thanks for the input. I will think some things over and when i come up with any good arguments for my points I will post them.

McDeth · Post by **McDeth** » Tue Oct 01, 2002 2:52 pm

The Chaos pact team is an experimental team from BB Mag 3

carnage4u · Post by **carnage4u** » Tue Oct 01, 2002 4:45 pm

"

The Chaos pact team is an experimental team from BB Mag 3

"

i understand that, but the new rules dont have allies rules.
is the chaos pact the exception to that?

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Tue Oct 01, 2002 5:04 pm

Yes, the Chaos Pact team is an "exception" to the no allies rules. The pact teams are basically a way to allow allies in a "controlled" enviroment. So not every team can have allies just these 3.

There are two variants being tested here:

1) The stats in BB Mag #3 for the teams

2) The MBBL is testing variants where the secondary lineman are only 0-2 slots and the Chaos Pact cannot have Dark Elves and the Old World cannot have High Elves.

Oh and carnage, the Chaos Pact team has Marauders just like you wanted.

Finally, Marcus, I agree ... the more I talk to Lucien the more I like his idea that the world of BB is a seperate dimension pocket created by Nuffle to prove that Blood Bowl is a more intelligent way to settle differences than war. Nice way to remove BB from the WFB world and its changes and make sure that teams like the Chaos Dwarves don't go the way of the Slann, Half-Orcs, and Werewolf teams that have been deleted from the official rules over the years ... (I really miss all 3 of these teams too ... thankfully I have a league where they aren't dead yet.)

Galak

GenoNBBL · Post by **GenoNBBL** » Mon Oct 14, 2002 6:54 pm

Just a quick note about this debate.

I've coached 2 Chaos teams over the past year. The first one played over 20 games, and won 2 trophies in that time (Spike and Chaos Cup). They grew to TR 240(ish) and they were pretty well developed.

I've just started a brand new team in a new league and they won their first game. The team was built as follows:

8 Beastmen
1 Ogre
2 Chaos Warriors
1 Apoth
2 Re-Rolls
1 Fan Factor

I played a TR 106 High Elf team (so pretty much balanced) and won 2-0, with casualties in my favour 5-0. I also won a pitch invasion with FF1 against FF5 but I won't go into that here

I really do think a Chaos team, be it rookie or experienced, can be awesome in the hands of the right coach, or in my case with the right amount of luck.

The point you seem to be making is that with only 2 positional players they are limited, but as pointed out there that's not so.

Everyone is good at anything. Chaos Warriors can run a ball up the field (I've done it plenty of times) and Beastman make excellent blitzers. If you're bored with the figs maybe then change the Beastmen out for 'Humans' with helemts that have horns on. That should spice up your team a bit and not change any rules.

Re-Rolls are high to represent access to mutations and the fact that Chaos teams just don't practice often. I say start with as many as you can and buy when opportunity knocks. My experienced team ended up with 3 team RR's and 2 trophy RR's, not bad at all!

In short: Chaos are great!

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Chaos Teams- Ways to Improve

Chaos Teams- Ways to Improve

Re: Chaos Teams- Ways to Improve

thanks