Daemon roster

[Gap]

Hi !
One of my players would like to test a daemon roster. Here's what he came up with. What do you think of it, does it look good ? Too good ? What changes should be brought to make it a decent BB team ?

0-16 Plaguebearer M4 ST3 A2 AR9 ; Regen, Horn ; MS/GAP ; 60k
0-4 Bloodletter M7 ST3 A3 AR8 ; Regen, Block ; MG/ASP ; 90k
0-2 Horror M6 ST3 A3 AR7 ; Regen, Extra arm, Pass ; MP/GAS ; 90k
0-2 Daemonette M7 ST3 A4 AR7 ; Regen, Pincer, Dodge ; MA/GPS ; 110k
0-2 Khorne Hound M8 ST4 A3 AR8 ; Regen, Frenzy ; MG/ASP ; 110k
0-1 Beast of Nurgle M4 ST5 A1 AR9 ; Loner, Disturbing Presence, Foul Appearance, Mighty Blow, Nurgle’s Rot, Really Stupid, Regeneration, Tentacles ; S/AGMP ; 140k

RR : 70k
Apo: No access

I think it's too strong :
- Too many specialists (11)
- No notable weakness (no negatrait, no stat below 3 - except the Beast)
- Costs look too low (especially for the Hound)

[apricotsoup]

I'm honestly quite dissapointed with what GW turned around and did with the whole daemon schtick. I'd only really like to see lists dedicated to particular gods, the blood bowl world is different enough from the warhammer world that it makes more sense to keep the lists seperate anyways.

Besides the different gods have enough elements to not inflate the specialist positions.


Blue Horror, Pink Horror, Flamer, Spawn
Nurgling, Plague bearer, Beast
etc.

That's before adding in things like aspiring champions as big guys.

[plasmoid]

Hi Gap,
that looks really truly broken.
I don't even know where to start - so I hope others will beat me to it

If you're interested, I've got a list that is unique, plays well, and despite looking nasty has proven to be tier 2 in quite a few playtest games.

You can see it here, 1st post, under the picture of the daemon team:
viewtopic.php?t=25456

Cheers
Martin

[plasmoid]

A good place to start:
1) AG4 and ST4 on the same roster always means that you have to be careful. And the team has more power synergy, like super tough linemen.

2) Using the pricing formula:
Plauguebearer: Zombie with AV9 (10K) and horns (10K) - 60K is cheapish, but OK.
Bloodletters: Human blitzer with regen for free? Should be 100K (or 110K)
Horror: OK
Daemonette should be 130K - rounded down to 110-120K.
Hound 180K, rounded down to 140K.
Beast OK.

3) If you take the 11 best players, priced correctly, then their total value should be around 900K. Most expensive official team (AFAIK is a bit over 1000K).

Given the above prices, and that I'm rounding bloodletters down and rounding daemonettes up, I get:
140K + 2x140K + 2x110K + 4x100K + 2x90K = 1220K. Waaaay off!

Cheers
Martin

[Gap]

Thanks ! I'll let him know.

Which player type would you consider as the "Lineman" (for journeymen purposes) in that roster ?

[Jural]

I would start with the following edits just to make it dream of being competitive:

Hi !
One of my players would like to test a daemon roster. Here's what he came up with. What do you think of it, does it look good ? Too good ? What changes should be brought to make it a decent BB team ?

0-16 Plaguebearer M4 ST3 A2 AR9 ; Regen, Foul Appearance ; MS/GAP ; 60k (Removed Horns)
0-4 Bloodletter M7 ST3 A3 AR8 ; Regen, Block ; MG/ASP ; 110k (110k)
0-2 Horror M6 ST2 A3 AR7 ; Regen, Extra arm, Pass ; MP/GAS ; 90k (Moved to STR 2)
0-2 Daemonette M7 ST3 A4 AR7 ; Regen, Claw, Dodge ; MA/GPS ; 110k
(Delete Hounds)
0-1 Beast of Nurgle M4 ST5 A1 AR9 ; Loner, Disturbing Presence, Foul Appearance, Mighty Blow, Nurgle’s Rot, Really Stupid, Regeneration, Tentacles ; S/AGMP ; 140k

RR : 70k
Apo: No access

I think it's too strong :
- Too many specialists (11)
- No notable weakness (no negatrait, no stat below 3 - except the Beast)
- Costs look too low (especially for the Hound)

I may want to address the Daemonette by adding No Hands...

[plasmoid]

Hi Gap,
well - plaguebearers are the best fit, with their G-skill only access.

But we've actually used a house rule for that (because what do you do with maxed out linemen at 4, but, say, only 9 guys for the game) - so: You can only hire journeymen from a position, if no other positions have less players available.

Cheers
Martin

[stashman]

0-16 Plaguebearers 4 3 2 9 Foul Apperance, Disturbing Presence G/APS 60K
0-4 Bloodletters 5 4 3 8 Foul Apperance, Frenzy GS/PA 110K
0-4 Horrors 6 3 3 8 Foul Apperance, Extra Arms GP/AS 70K
0-4 Daemonettes 7 3 3 7 Foul Apperance, Claw GA/PS 70K
0-1 Deamon Prince 6 5 2 8 Loner, Animosity, Foul Apperance, Disturbing Presence, Frenzy, Extra Arms, Claw 160K S/GAP

Rerolls: 70K

With no apo or regenerate I think this team will work. That’s theory, but I don’t see anything broken.

To have regenerate it’s almost like playing undead/necro but with all being deamons Foul Apperance would fit better (and make them whole different). Maybe the prince is too good for a team with only loner and animosity but if he gets bonehead it’s solved. I don't like the beast of nurgle here becuse Nurgles rot don't fit with the rules (this team won't get any rotters).

And no mutations on them! To chaos if the have mutations more than they already have. It's more unique this way.

[katadder]

I agree, deamons dont mutate as they are already the stuff of chaos. if any deamon were to have mutations it would be horrors as they tend to fluctuate in shape and form.

[plasmoid]

Hi Katadder,
that mirrors my thinking.
My version has mutations on doubles only - except the horrors, who get them on normal rolls.

Cheers
Martin

[katadder]

I have also done teams for all the powers individually with things like fiends fo slaanesh, fleshhounds etc as big guys.

[plasmoid]

Different strokes I guess
I have a heck of a hard time seeing fiends, hounds, juggers and flying discs playing BB.
Heck, the Beast of Nurgle bothers me more than a little

Cheers
Martin

[Jural]

Personally, I like plasmoid's roster, but I think in order to bring something in line with LRB 6, there needs to be a 0-16 positional, which kinda bites the whole aligned daemon thing...

So I'd probably try this:

0-16 lesser daemons 6 3 3 8 Regen, Animosity 60k G/ASPM
0-2 berserkers 6 4 3 8 Regen Frenzy, Animosity 120k GS/APM
0-2 Daemonetters 7 3 4 7 Claw, Dodge, Regen Animosity 110k GA/SPM
0-2 Plaguebearers 4 4 2 9 FA, DP, Thick Skull, Regen, Animosity 110k GS/APM
0-2 Pink Horrors 6 3 3 8 Regen, Extra Arms, Animosity 90k GPM/AS

Re-rolls- 70k

I think that would be a logical starting point. No big man, team wide animosity, a limited number of each special daemon. A pricey but fun team, a bit unreliable. If need be, the Plaguebearers could be brought down to STR 3, 80k pieces to guarantee Tier 2 or worse status.

If this was an MBBL2 team, I'd add an "unstable roll" Basically, roll for each player, on a 2+ they could be fielded, on a 1 they must spend this drive in the reserves.

[plasmoid]

Hi Jural,
we tried something similar at one point, and for tournament purposes it was a disaster - as in very powerful.
It was not the same statlines though, but the same principle.

The cheaper AG3 linemen completely eradicated the teams ball-handling problems, while the improved daemons did their thing.

Like I said, not the same statlines, but I suggest treading carefully
Cheers
Martin

[Panda]

I seem to remember there were rules for mono-god teams back when GW had a bbowl site...