Chaos Power teams and Beastman teams

Got a great idea and/or proposal for BloodBowl?

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Darkson
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Re: Chaos Power teams and Beastman teams

Post by Darkson »

graeme27uk wrote:it just vexes me that a game that is still popular gets lip-service on things that are obviously wanted by players. Chaos just seems to have been dumped upon whereas other races have more work put into them...
Some players.

As I said above, this isn't a new idea, this has been mentioned for 10+ years, and the fact nothings ever come about it is because (it seems) the vast majority of BB coaches don't really care. If they did, with the dedication to the game from people such as Galak, they'd be either in the rules now, or have the same sort of standing as Chaos Pact, Underworld and Slann. The fact they don't should give you a clue.

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Re: Chaos Power teams and Beastman teams

Post by spubbbba »

There are 3 chaos teams, Chaos, Rotters and Chaos Pact. That's plenty and in my opinion 24 teams is fine, in fact i'd happily drop boring ones like Khemri or Amazons.

If you look at god themed armies for 40K and Fantasy then they are all pretty similar with the exception of daemons and as most of them are beasts or steeds then they don't translate well to bloodbowl. The various attempts at making god themed teams have all been a bit samey and not really warranted 4 different teams.

Vanilla Chaos are lucky with access to 3 skills so they can actually have quite a varied choice without having to choose useless skills. So i still think the better option is to take a normal chaos/pact team and pick appropriate skills for them.

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Re: Chaos Power teams and Beastman teams

Post by graeme27uk »

spubbbba wrote:There are 3 chaos teams, Chaos, Rotters and Chaos Pact. That's plenty and in my opinion 24 teams is fine, in fact i'd happily drop boring ones like Khemri or Amazons.

If you look at god themed armies for 40K and Fantasy then they are all pretty similar with the exception of daemons and as most of them are beasts or steeds then they don't translate well to bloodbowl. The various attempts at making god themed teams have all been a bit samey and not really warranted 4 different teams.

Vanilla Chaos are lucky with access to 3 skills so they can actually have quite a varied choice without having to choose useless skills. So i still think the better option is to take a normal chaos/pact team and pick appropriate skills for them.

Chaos Pact team seems to me to be odd.. 1 goblin, 1 darkelf, 1 skaven... and linemen. Seems a bit random. 3 big guys is a bit random as well due to bonehead, wild animal, etc

Normal Chaos... only having 2 player types seems limiting but i agree they have lots of various potential development wise.

A chaos version of an Orc team would be ideal but then you cant have everything.

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Re: Chaos Power teams and Beastman teams

Post by Grumbledook »

Indeed you can use chaos pact if you don't want to mix beastmen with humans. You don't have to take the goblin, skaven, dark elf or all the big guys if you don't want. That is why the team was added, you can have a pure marauder team with just an ogre if you want to go all humanoid.

then if you want khorne, then give loads of players frenzy etc that was part of the reason they were designed the way they are

I don't really want specific teams per god, you can do that with your skill choices as others have mentioned

that is pretty much all the rotters are anyway, some foul app, dist p and some regen though the rotters were added recently

I think we also need to be careful about having too many races with mutation access. Having them all as Chaos limits that compared to having them separate.

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Re: Chaos Power teams and Beastman teams

Post by graeme27uk »

Grumbledook wrote: that is pretty much all the rotters are anyway, some foul app, dist p and some regen though the rotters were added recently

I think we also need to be careful about having too many races with mutation access. Having them all as Chaos limits that compared to having them separate.

But the point is they start with those skills rather than having to earn SPP's to get them and then using valuable skill slots up. Rotters are an important function as they are cheap expendable linemen, something Chaos is missing.

I don't see what difference it would make if we had 4 rather than 1 Chaos teams in terms of availability of mutations.

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Re: Chaos Power teams and Beastman teams

Post by Grumbledook »

if you want cheap linemen then there are plenty of teams already that provide that option

it is adding more races that don't offer anything new that is the issue, none of the suggested rosters up till now really do that

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Re: Chaos Power teams and Beastman teams

Post by graeme27uk »

Nurgle's Rotters were the only Chaos team (other than the All-Stars) to be specifically mentioned in the fluff, what with their diseases, decay, etc. Seems fitting that they'd actually get a playable team out of it, while no other particular Chaos God-inspired side had sprung up so they only get to use the 'regular' chaos team.

This isn't correct. In Deathzone there is a Khorne team mentioned... page 30 Khorne's Killers. They are noted alongside the Rotters and it is clearly mentioned that they are a psychotic bunch who either "win by lots or lose by lots".

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Re: Chaos Power teams and Beastman teams

Post by Grumbledook »

that is the general description for the generic chaos team as well

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Re: Chaos Power teams and Beastman teams

Post by ombwiri »

Grumbledook wrote:it is adding more races that don't offer anything new that is the issue, none of the suggested rosters up till now really do that
Is part of the problem here that most Chaos powers teams start from a 'convert from wargame' position?

Could we come up with more varied teams if we ignored the Warhammer aspects and just made teams that fitted in with the ethos of the God?

The Rotters seems to have come from this starting point and they've ended up well.

So we have:

Tzeench: Chaos god of Change, Ambition, Knowledge, Hope and Sorcery.
Slaanesh: Chaos god of desire, of the pursuit of pleasure and satisfaction and the need of and for sensations.
Khorne: Chaos God of blood, war, and martial valour.

Most Khorne teams seem to start from the point of just chucking Frenzy at all the players and seeing what sticks. Maybe we should ask how would a team of cultists of each god try to play blood bowl?

Would a Tzeench team just end up with lots of mutations? I don't think so. There isn't any intelligence to that.

Why do Slaanesh teams always have high AG?

What style of play seems fitting for each god? Does that style of play differ from an existing team?

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Re: Chaos Power teams and Beastman teams

Post by bouf »

BABBL may for the first time allow House Rule teams... Plasmoid's Bretonian Roster and the following Beast Roster (I can't claim credit, but was a big time advocate back in the day)

Code: Select all

  **  Beastmen  **
0-16 Ungor     40    6  2  3  8  A /GPSM  Dodge,
0-4  Gor       60    6  3  3  8  GS /APM  Horns,
0-2  Bestagor  100   6  3  3  9  GSM /AP  Block, Horns, 
0-2  Centigor  110   7  3  3  8  GS /APM  Frenzy, Horns, Sprint, Wild Animal 
0-1  Minotaur  150   5  5  2  8  S /GAPM  Loner, Frenzy, Horns, Mighty Blow, Thick Skull, Wild Animal, 
     
     Re-Roll   70    Stars  Lewdgrip Whiparm
                            Max Spleenripper
                            Wilhelm Cheney
                            Zarag Madeye
                            Grishnack
                            Morg n Thorg
Here's the Idea...

~ Team - They're unruly. Many of Wild Animals, 70k RRs ain't cheap, and a few starting skills that are beneficial but likely to cost RRs if not careful. The team is intended to play at T2 or T3 (Probably T2-T1.5)
~ Team - Chaos, but not in Favour. Other than the Bestagors, the team isn't favoured by he Chaos Gods. So they can mutate but not as much as the other, more favoured chaos teams.
~ Team - Glass Cannon. The Beast Roster is hard hitting and boasts probably the best Blitzing Type plater in the game. But they're pretty low ST for a fighting squad... and not high AV either. (not low, but not high) So they should come out swinging, but without a knock out blow, they'll be in danger of being flattened.
~ Ungors - They're Tough Goblins! They have a higher AV, but lack the benefits of being stunty... They lack the penalties too however. Plus the option to mutate on doubles.
~ Gors - Poor Mans Beastman. These poor guys are oddly out of place on the Beastman team. Best suited to Blitzing, but out classed by the Bestigors and Centagors. They'll likely take up supporting roles and resent they're brethren's glory. Gors aren't as good as Traditional Beastmen, but are still plenty good.
~ Bestigors - The God of Blitzing The Bestagors come out of the Box just awesome for Blitzing, arguably the best in the game. At only 10k more than a Human Blitzer, they lose an MA but gain a much needed AV. Not mentioning the Horns! Blitzing at ST4 with Block when fresh from the locker room is not to be sneezed at! Add Mutation access and they are prime candidates for the dreaded MB/PO/Claws combo!
~ Centagors - Drinking whilst running. These fast and capable players can be very un-pedictable. Without some one to fight, they may just stumble about in a drunken stupor, but when given a head to bust Centagors are furious, Powerful and lightning fast.
~ Minotaur - The Angry Powerhouse. What can be said about the Minotaur that hasn't already been said? They are angry, psychotic killing machines, but their raw fury can be a distraction even to them selves.

The team will be a real hand full. If you suffer a few casualties or MNGs, you'll be stuck fielding the almost useless Ungors. Worse, get a Gor killed or retired and you'll be in a spot until they get back up to scratch. The Bestagors will be your stars, but focusing on killing may waste their potential for powerful runs up the pitch... one application of Two heads will make them into great runners! One huge challenge will be keeping the Centagors and the Minotaur interested in the game. The Mino would benefit from Tentacles... I'd give the Centagor Shadowing! Anything to minimise the number of Blitzes you need to make... Save them for the Bestagors.

That'll be the real achilles heel... A team full of Blitzers, supported by weakling plebs. No Throwers, runners, catchers, nothing... How do you get value from 9 blitzers..? Especially when three of them are willing to stand about if they don't blitz someone?

We're very likely to add them to our next season. I'll let you know how they go!

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Re: Chaos Power teams and Beastman teams

Post by OrcishBard »

i have posted a threat in the House rule section for my Chaos God teams.

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