Changes you would make to the amazons

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Akalabeth
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Re: Changes you would make to the amazons

Post by Akalabeth »

Void wrote: Especially now when there's "Wrestle" avalible in General category Block could be moved to Strength.
It irritates me that agile teams can have both greatest skills and bashy only half of it.
Moving Block to Strength would completely screw the balance of the game.
It would also negate one of the biggest weaknesses of Big Guys.

Your reasoning is also pretty weaksauce. That being 'block should be strength because agility teams shouldn't get it'. Then Mighty Blow should be extraordinary because a ST3 guy shouldn't have it, and mutations should be random so people can't pick claws right off the bat. Because you know, mutations are by definition, random.


Either way, on topic I agree the Amazons could use a change. To make them less BORING if nothing else. Not sure how to best accomplish that.

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Corvidius
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Re: Changes you would make to the amazons

Post by Corvidius »

I actually like the Amazons the way they are. I do tend to run the ball though which makes my Throwers my stars even though my Blitzers get more attention due to Blodge, Tackle, Guard, Mighty Blow being brutal in concert.

I like the uniformity on the current team and appreciate the fact that only 2 players have Ag access (otherwise I'd have much more Diving Tackle) Being so basic but with access to Blodge across the board allowed me to go back to basic tactics as opposed to the showboating my Wood Elves performed or the Failbowl my Ogres repeatedly did.

Amazons get broken by teams with even limited Tackle or Mighty Blow (not to mention Piling On, which is the Bane of my existence these days) over the long term. Diving Tackle also contributes to Amazons having a hard time.

The initial post mentioned Amazons in Tournament play though and I've no real experience of them in that context, either playing as them or against them so can't comment on Tournament balance.

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garion
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Re: Changes you would make to the amazons

Post by garion »

What were the actual changes made during their playtesting for LRB6 that didn't make the cut?

Also how about something like this -

16x Linewomen - 6 2 3 7 Dodge, Dauntless - G 40k
2x Catcher - 8 2 3 7 Dodge, Dauntless, Catch - G A 70k
4x Blitzers - 6 3 3 7 Block, Dodge, Dauntless - G S 100k
2x Thrower - 7 2 3 7 Dodge, Pass, - G P 50k
1x Mapinguary - 4 5 1 9 Thick Skull, Stand Firm, Really Stupid, Loner, Throw Team Mate, Always Hungry, Claw - S 110k
RR - 50k

Also a slight change to their Star player list - Get rid of Dolphar and replace with Puggy.

My reasons for suggesting these changes -

In theory this will stop them from being the horrendously annoying opponent most races find them to be at a low TV. Lowering all their players St to St2 other than their Blitzers means dealing with all that Dodge en masse earlier on will be a lot more manageable for their opponents that don't have much block or any tackle.

Dauntless on all their players other than their thrower for me fits the fluff of the team quite well and means they will still be able to function as St3 blockers and blitzers for the most part and it may even help dealing with Big guys and high Strength players a little bit more effectively.

The extra movement of their Thrower and 2 extra movement of their Catchers would help give them an edge over Dwarves at a low TV and should help those games be a little less one sided.

Adding a big guy will help them in the long run, it will give them a player that can absorb some damage (St5,Av9 and Thick Skull) and also dish a little out. Starting with Claw means that he will be able to get the CPOMB quite quickly which will be very good for competing with high AV teams at a high TV. Something zons have typically struggled with.

Mapinguary is an amazon legend, it is like a giant sloth with really big Claws. I gave it really stupid because they look stupid (if you check some pictures of them on the web you will see what I mean) but also so you have to keep a player next to them to get them to move, like a herder or beastmaster if you will.

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Re: Changes you would make to the amazons

Post by Darkson »

garion wrote:What were the actual changes made during their playtesting for LRB6 that didn't make the cut?
http://slobb.doubleskulls.net/race_view ... race_id=23
(though I don't remember it having AG access across the board - not saying it didn't, just don't remember it - Plasmoid might remember better)

And why does the Mag..Map..Marzipan have Throw Teammate?

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garion
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Re: Changes you would make to the amazons

Post by garion »

Thanks Darkson :)

The ma ma ma Marzipan 8) has TTM just because it is a big guy really. Same reason the Wood Elf Treeman has really. But also I would like to see Puggy in this teams Star player list as well (instead of Dolphar Longstride).

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gandresch
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Re: Changes you would make to the amazons

Post by gandresch »

We had a little discussion on that in our table top league.
Most coaches are certain, that the 6337 stats on all players make the team a little uninteresting. Most agree that Amazons should be a more fragile team compared to Human and the team should get more interesting.
The problem here is the small way between overpowered - Zons are very good at TV100-150 and shouldn't be boosted in any way - and still not competitive at the higher TV ... and perhaps still boring :roll:

As my experiences tell that the Dodge on the linos is really great and shouldn't be changed to Fend, as AV7 makes the team and the games unpredictable. If you remove the Dodge, the girls fall quite more often and are a lot more difficult to play. So we didn't change the linos.
On the positionals we increased the prices and made them more interesting. This way you can't buy as much positionals in the beginning, the teams gets a bit weakend and because of better positionals has more options in the higher TV.

0-16 Lineman 6 3 3 7 Dodge - G - 50k gp

0-2 Thrower 6 3 3 7 Pass, Kick-Off Return -GP - 60k gp (not quite sure about the price. The table i found says 60k, but only Dodge was changed to KoR)

0-2 Runner 7 2 4 7 Dodge, Side Step, Sure Feet - GA - 90k gp (many posts here said, that Diving Catch is nice to have, so change perhaps SS to DC)

0-2 Hunter 7 3 3 7 Dodge, Diving Tackle - GAS - 90k gp (old blitzer changed, Shadowing might be good as well instead of DT, but the aspect of the position is nice. A bit like the DE Assassin)

0-2 Jaguar Warrior 6 3 3 8 Dodge, Block - GS - 110 gp (old blitzer -> AV8)

Positionals cost about 20k more than before or lose their Dodge skill regarding the passer. With AG4 on the Runner, the team has more options. The Jaguar Warrior gives the team more stability while the Hunter opens a lot of options which are based on the access abilities and the movement. The higher prices allow to take 1-3 positionals less at TV100 and open more options in high TV.

A nice addition would be a Loner. But here i didn't think of something like ST5, MB and stuff, but more like a Guardian. The Kong that was introduced before is a nice player. With perhaps 4428 Loner, Thick Skull and something like Guard perhaps (does not need MB or Claw) at the cost of 120k-130k, the team wouldn't be overpowered and still be fluffy :D

gan

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Chris
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Re: Changes you would make to the amazons

Post by Chris »

So you didn't like the idea that they should be the human team that does agile and passing?

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Lamanzer
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Re: Changes you would make to the amazons

Post by Lamanzer »

My two cents:

0-16 Linewoman 50k 6337 Fend AG-PS
0-4 Catcher 70k 8237 Diving Catch, Dodge AG-PS
0-2 Thrower 70k 6337 Nerves of steel, Pass AGP-S
0-4 Blitzer 90k 7338 Block AGS-P

Nearly the same as DoubleSkulls :wink:

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