An idea for the Tomb Guardians?

[WhatBall]

Not sure if this should go here or house rules, but I was thinking about the TGs the other day. A lot of talk centres around the major nerf of the Khemri, and what happened to the TGs. I haven't played the team yet, but have watched them being played numerous times, and read some of the arguments for and against the changes.

Ok enough of that, what am I suggesting? The biggest issue is that they now have Deacy and no G access. This was in response to them being too strong as essentially four big guys on a team with no negatraits, which is crazy. What I am proposing is this, remove Decay, and give them back G access, but give them all a negatrait, Wild Animal. WA you say? It actually fits. They are Tomb Guardians. Dead things that stand around for eons, doing nothing but guarding. They don't wander off, they guard and attack interlopers. That is why WA fits them quite well imo. Now, WA is definitely not the worst negatrait, but when you have 4 guys on a side with it, it will make for an interesting strategic element to try and get them moved around where you need them.

Then maybe give the thrower AG3 and call them a runner and you could have a playable, yet interesting team.

[inkpwn]

I think the main problem we face as blood bowl fans is removing the teams individuality and try to move the team more towards the human side of things.

No runner keep the AG the same, how about ST4 regeneration, thick skull 80k tomb guardians and one ushabiti?

Ushabti: MV5, ST5,Ag1 AV 9 wild animal, claw, thick skull. Regeneration, decay140k

Actually that's a bit OTT.

[Ullis]

The new Khemri team is fine. Seriously, just play them for a while before suggesting any changes.

Giving the Tomb Guardians a negatrait would totally hose the team, even if Decay was taken off. Since there's no reliable dodging on the team, being able to move the TG's is very important for a Khemri team's positioning.

And an AG3 thro-ra would take away the flavour of the team and be a major boost, but still wouldn't add up to a negatrait on the tomb guardians.

[someone2040]

Adding negatraits on top of ma 3 would be a sure way to kill off the team even further.

To me, the only two changes that Khemri need are
Remove Decay off Tomb Guardians. On such an expensive and key piece to the team, Decay is a kick in the pants when things go bad. Sure, people will say what's the odds of that happening, but it just takes a little claw to ruin a Tomb Guardians day.
Add thick skull to Blitz-Ra's and Thro-Ra's for consistancies sake. Linemen Skeletons have thicker skulls than Blitzer skeletons?

If the team was setup like that, I would happily get out my Khemri miniatures, finish them off, and consider taking the team again.

[Akalabeth]

I've never understood the massive hate on for Khemri. When I first played them, they were a little over powered (the original version had 4 Mummies and 4 Tomb Guardians, where the Tomb Guards were like 6328 Block Guard Regen), but now they actually look kinda sad. People seem to be unable to get over the 4x 5 ST guys with no negative traits. Big deal. Chaos and Orcs have 4x ST 4 guys with no negative traits. Lizardmen have 6x ST 4 guys with no negative traits.

To me anything above ST 3 is good. And of course ST 5 is better than ST4, but frankly being ST 5 instead of ST 4 isn't a big a deal as being ST 4 instead of ST 3 or ST 2 instead of ST 3. Even one more will get you that extra dice, an extra strength is just insurance.

TGs don't have negative traits but they don't get things like mighty blow either which are default big guy skills. Not having G access when most every other up-strengthed positional on other teams do get G access kinda blows too. Not to mention the entire rest of the team has crap armour, crap speed, and crap agility.

I'm tied up with another team in our league now, but personally I can't wait to go back and play the Khemri again once the next season rolls around. If only for the joke of being unable to pick up the ball for more than two turns with sure hands.

[Shteve0]

Spitballing:

I feel like i've been here before.

Take thick skull off skellies. Why would they have thick skull? Silly.

Give them decay, regen and nerves of steel. Fits the fluff, makes them nigh on impossible to skill up. For that reason, give them S access only. Seriously, why not? Itd be a laugh.

Drop decay from TG. Its cruel, and just not funny. I mean it. S access only.

Have blitzer with NoS, regen and block, SG, and runner with Sure Hands, NoS, regen and PG access.

Much more fun to play. I want my piling on skellies to disintegrate at the first sign of trouble. I dont want to have to replace expensive TGs because of offpitch nerfs.

[Ulthuan_Express]

Take thick skull off skellies. Why would they have thick skull? Silly.

Because there's not a brain in there to rattle around and actually knock them unconscious... surely? I figured that was pretty obvious, and it also has the knack of balancing them out with the zombies (as they need and 8+ followed by a 9+ to KO them, rather than the 9+ followed by an 8+ the Zombies need) for removing from the pitch purposes.

[duckwing]

I've played Khemri a while and think they are both playable and interesting as they are.
If I would do any changes however it would be something along the lines of:
0-2 Mummies á la undead.
0-2 Tomb Guardians 5428 Guard, GS
0-2 Blitz-Ra, as they are but add Thick skull
Thro-Ras and skellies as they are.

[necrosis]

Removing decay off the TGs is the main thing. The guys take ages to skill up and one brush with claw, a freak block, or well placed foul has a good chance of wrecking them. It can be hard and de-motivating for a khemri coach to have to accept it takes so many games to skill up your most important pieces up only to have them pretty easily killed by other bash teams. It isn't like you can protect them..most of the rest of team are already av7 and get pummelled regularly.

[mattgslater]

As a Khemri coach, I have to tell you that a TG isn't that vulnerable. Decay + Regen = wash.

The team is marginally too weak (well, not weak, but marginally not good enough), primarily because the Blitz-Ras and Thro-Ras are awful bargains. Giving them Thick Skull would probably be enough, to be sure, because the team is supposed to be Tier 1.5. And that's for a reason.

Once upon a time I likened the Khemri to the 1st edition AD&D Barbarian, a case-study in how you can't "Ben Franklin" or "Jeremy Bentham" (depending on your nationality) your way to game balance. I still believe that, but I think Tom hit the nail on the head when he designed the team balance in this game to be a range, rather than a specific target.

[necrosis]

As a Khemri coach, I have to tell you that a TG isn't that vulnerable. Decay + Regen = wash.

As a Khemri coach i have to tell you, decay makes a big difference to the vulnerability of TGs

[mattgslater]

I agree, necrosis. Decay almost counters Regenerate. And the team has no Apothecary.

With nothing, your chance of dying is 1/6 per Cas result. With Decay/Regen, it's 1/2 x 11/36 = 11/72, slightly less.

With nothing, you have no chance of going to the reserves. With Decay/Regen, it's 1/2.

With nothing, you have a 50/50 chance of making it to the next game. With Decay/Regen, it's 5/8.

[necrosis]

I agree, necrosis. Decay almost counters Regenerate. And the team has no Apothecary.

With nothing, your chance of dying is 1/6 per Cas result. With Decay/Regen, it's 1/2 x 11/36 = 11/72, slightly less.

With nothing, you have no chance of going to the reserves. With Decay/Regen, it's 1/2.

With nothing, you have a 50/50 chance of making it to the next game. With Decay/Regen, it's 5/8.

Obviously you always have a 50/50 chance of a regenerating any injury.
Remember though it isn't just deaths which hurt a TG, stat breaks and niggles can add up very quick when you roll twice on the casualty table. I really just think decay on TGs is unnecessary. I believe Galak almost goes as far as saying it was a mistake in the most recent 3 die block.

The main issue with the old Khemri I think was they could smash other teams early on because of too much mighty blow. Obviously mighty blow is now gone and it can take quite a while to develop TGs into more fearsome powerful players but by that time the teams you are playing can easily cope with your bash. In fact the rest of the team is so weak in terms of armor means going toe to toe with most bash teams would leave you men down on the pitch at least (even if you are regenerating). That can leave them able to cope with your TGs as well who of course have been blessed with decay. The only purpose I see decay having is adding an extra chance that a developed khemri team can get smashed.

[plasmoid]

IMO, the problem with decay is that it is not designed to have any impact on the game played.
It's simply there to kick the coach in the nuts for playing a team that is slow to develop and not particularly powerful.
A little bit like the old 'stunty: +1 to injuries' rule.
Oh wait, that got changed
Maybe decay should too

[Void]

The Dacay has an impact on the played game - that imact is lower level of dacay players.
However I think that Decay on Tomb Guardians in unnecessary and removing of Might Blow was enough.