Stunty Players - improvments

[garion]

From the OP:

#1 - I sort of agree - I'd make it half the TV cost of AG skills - they should still pay the full cost of doubles.

#2 - Kick, yes. DP - not convinced.

#3 - No.

#4 - Yes, though that should be all SG players, nt just Stunty ones.

From Plasmoid's list:

1. I'd like a skill added to allow a landing reroll as well,

2. Still agree with this.

1, It would be nice if sure feet did this as well, then there would be extra incentive to take it.

[Greyhound]

I love sure feet on my skinks.

[estyles]

I love sure feet on my skinks.

That sounds like a non-sequitur. I (and also the person above you, who may have had the thought independently) was saying it would be nice if Sure Feet allowed you to reroll a landing roll... Which Skinks can't possibly make, unless they made Right Stuff an Agility skill, I guess. Sure Feet isn't terrible on other "throwable" stunties, but I don't see it as a first skill choice, and most of those guys either die on their own or get recycled if they don't get doubles in the first couple skills...

[Smurf]

Well there is pro! That could help the buggers land.

I was messing about with my son and I wanted to lob a gobbo at his chaos warrior... just for fun, ah well the Troll ate him instead! hehehehehe

[Afroman]

The one skill I've been missing all these years has allways been one that allows you to land easier(either by rerolling or by modifying the dice).

That would put the TTM game(the single most unique part of the RS players) back in the map.


When it comes to skinks, They are fast! what else do you want?

[dines]

Regarding the TTM part of the discussion, I would be worried that Orcs just gets even stronger unless the goblins are removed from their roster. Its tough to meet a team that can grind really well and also make reliable 1TTD.

[OdoGoodgrubb]

I think a lot more options would come into play if TTM did not count as a Pass Action in those cases where the Stunty being thrown does not have the ball.

Imagine having a Fling with Hail Mary Pass....first turn you take the Trees and launch two Flings with Diving Catch down field as the HMP Fling collects the ball....hee hee hee

[Urb]

I don't see any need to change stunties. I've played goblins to great success. Do lizards really need an improvement? As stated why give orcs more.

IMHO they fit very well in the role they've been designed to fill. Fun.

[Darkson]

Do lizards really need an improvement?

They wouldn't, as the improvement is mooted for Right Stuff, which Skinks don't have.

[garion]

I think a lot more options would come into play if TTM did not count as a Pass Action in those cases where the Stunty being thrown does not have the ball.

Imagine having a Fling with Hail Mary Pass....first turn you take the Trees and launch two Flings with Diving Catch down field as the HMP Fling collects the ball....hee hee hee

Yup goblins are really good in a league setting and flings can do well too if they start of on a tv of 600 so they can induce a wizard chef and deeproot every game. But the skills they obtain make almost no difference to the teams effectiveness. Unless they have a double skill as well. These two stunty teams actually benefit from keeping your TV as low as possible for as long as possible so that they can induce bribes star players etc... So rather than firing any stunty player from these team that doesnt get a double skill in their first two rolls to keep your TV down the players could progress normally if single rolls were only half the TV increase. Doubles and stat increases stay the same.

I dont think any of these changes would make things easier for Orcs though, throwing with a troll is still very low probability of succeeding.

I also dont think these would make the lizardmen teams much stronger, it just means people wouldnt fire skinks when they got skills which is stupid and happens a lot in longer leagues.

[AntonLunau]

I think that the stunties clearly needs to be fixed. Some more than other. The trick is making a fix that will boost the worst ones ('tling and 'flings) alot while not being to good for the other ones (goblins need a small boost while the skinks only need very minor, if any, changes)

Making team-specific rules might be the way to go but i was hoping it would be possible to make general changes that would benefit all of the teams.

Skill-cost reduction is needed but will be more helpful for the better teams. Bad players will still be bad even with a skill discount and your snotlings will still get killed, but they will be killed in battle not by you, their coach and thats vital: Cutting a skilled player to avoid bloat really saddens me. When one of your louse little players finally get a skill, he has earned it. Its what gives your playing pieces life. A snotling scoring a TD or throwing a pass gives that piece its own uniqu personality. The rules should encourage you to keep skilled piece. Skil-cost reduction (by half) is a must.

I like the idea of giving stunty teams acces to DP since it will benefit the worst teams more than the good ones. You always have plenty of halflings and snotlings around who dont mind beeing sent off.

One last idea that been floating in my head for a while now is a new skill. Tell me what you think of this one:

Squirm (AG Skill)
This player may use Squirm when he is blocked and a ‘Both Down’ result on the Block dice is chosen by either coach. Instead of applying the ‘Both Down’ result, both players are wrestled to the ground. Both players are Placed Prone in their respective squares even if one or both have the Block skill. Do not make Armour rolls for either player.

A toned down wrestle that only works on defence. It will help your little guys live while not making them to good on offence. What do you think? (also im sure someone can come up with a better name)

Regards

Anton

[Urb]

I think there is some merit to a new skill however I don't like the idea of "squirm". Just too similar to wrestle.

Maybe something like a extraordinary skilled called "Little Bugger". Similar to foul appearance. When a block vs the "little bugger" is declared make an agility roll. So ag3 needs a 3+, ag4 requires 2+. Maybe allow for +1 mod per tackle zone so assists really matter. Mind you not all stunties should get this skill. Snotlings and flings. Goblins and Skinks, forget it. Would mean rough times for Khemri.

[DoubleSkulls]

I can't say I have noticed stunties really under performing from the intent. If anything I think they may be a little too good now and need toning down.

What I have noticed though is that TV based match making screws them. They are designed to be lower TV than most of their opponents so they can exploit all the inducement toys to level the playing field. Having to play at roughly even TV all the time isn't what they were designed for. The solution - stop TV only based match making

[Darkson]

Having to play at roughly even TV all the time isn't what they were designed for. The solution - stop TV only based match making

However, just because you designed the game, doesn't mean you have any clue what you're talking about. Equal TV is soooooooo obviously what the BBRC actually meant, regardless of what you intended it to be. I mean, it must be - Cyanide and FUMBBL say so.

[garion]

Yup you are right they are far better when you take a lower TV team. Especailly with Flings, if you start off with a 600 TV team and induce chef, wizard deeproot or morg and puggy all season then you are laughing. They can actually be very powerfull if used this way.

The only thing that I really dont like though is that because of inducements and TV management in TT leagues, it encourages you to fire your Flings with any skills so you can get even more inducements as the season progresses.
This is also true of lizardmen who are my favourite race and I get tired of firing skinks just because they have skilled up.

This is why I think the only change that really needs to be brought in (if it were possible) is to make their skill cost half price.

This has nothing to do with fumbbl or cyanide or them underperforming. It is just a suggested fix to stop people firing players that gain skills.