Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced teams

Got a great idea and/or proposal for BloodBowl?

Moderator: TFF Mods

Post Reply
User avatar
mattgslater
King of Comedy
Posts: 7758
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:18 pm
Location: Far to the west, across the great desert, in the fabled Land of Comedy

Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced teams

Post by mattgslater »

How would you rank teams in terms of the relative skill requirements for the coach?

Here's my initial impression:

Beginner teams: Amazons, Dwarfs, Elves, Humans, Orcs, Skaven, Undead, Wood Elves.

Intermediate teams: Chaos, Chaos Dwarfs, Dark Elves, High Elves, Khemri, Lizardmen, Necromantic, Norse.

Advanced teams: Chaos Pact, Goblins, Halflings, Nurgle, Ogres, Slann, Underworld Pact, Vampires.

Reason: ''
What is Nuffle's view? Through a window, two-by-three. He peers through snake eyes.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
Urb
Super Star
Super Star
Posts: 863
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 3:06 am
Location: The Great White North

Re: Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced teams

Post by Urb »

Almost in order and I reserve the right to change my mind.

-- Beginner --
Orcs (by far the most played team in my area X10 for a good reason)
Humans (my medicore, my medicore face....)
Dark Elves (ag + av = good for beginners)
Norse (Everyone has block yay)
Dwarves (slow buggers, easily out manouvered when you're a rookie coach)
Undead (no idea why more people don't play undead)

-- Intermediate --
Lizardmen (understanding when to use rr's takes time and experience)
Chaos Dwarves (if only the new players knew the potential)
Amazons
Elves
Woodelves
Skaven
Necromantic
Chaos
Khemri
Nurgle

-- Advanced --
Ogres
Goblins (Personally I think they are decient)

-- You're going to lose whether you're good or not --
Vamps (I'm not giving you the satisfaction of hurting my players. I'll kill them myself)
Flings (woe is me when block, tackle, or mb is around)

Whatever I missed just throw it in any category.

Reason: ''
Young Caine: Old man, how is it that you hear these things?
Master Po: Young man, how is it that you do not?
Dzerards
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 309
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:06 pm
Location: Irlanda

Re: Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced teams

Post by Dzerards »

Amazon and Skaven are intermediate teams, Urb?

Sure they get bashed up at high TVs but they're awesome at the beginning.

Reason: ''
Image
"Luck is the residue of design" John Milton
nick_nameless
Emerging Star
Emerging Star
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:41 pm

Re: Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced teams

Post by nick_nameless »

I maintain that Dwarves are not a beginners team. I have seen several beginners get frustrated and turned off to the game with Dwarves. Positioning and movement it critical, and beginners don't get it.

Reason: ''
funnyfingers
Emerging Star
Emerging Star
Posts: 418
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:41 pm
Contact:

Re: Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced teams

Post by funnyfingers »

There is a problem with pegging a team as great for a beginner. Do you want to win or do you want to learn to play well? I think you will find that if all the coaches are rookies, any of the Elf teams would tend to go to the top. Some of the teams that you think are great will lose because new coaches play too risky. It makes me cringe watching 1 dice block after 1 dice block after 1 dice block.

I agree that Dwarves are not good for a rookie coach. Chaos Dwarves are a lot more forgiving as are any of the Elf teams.

Reason: ''
Webhosting with the latest version of OBBLM installed: OBBLM Web Hosting (be sure to choose the OBBLM tab)
Urb
Super Star
Super Star
Posts: 863
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 3:06 am
Location: The Great White North

Re: Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced teams

Post by Urb »

I made my list based on a rookie coaches perspective.

Skaven are amazing in the hands of a skilled coach. All you have to say is gutter runner and people groan and for a good reason. Rookie coaches rarely play finese. They stand in there and throw blocks. Stay in base contact far too many times. That strategy mixed with AV7 mean a lot of rats leaving the pitch. Power team and fun no doubt but for a rookie?

Amazons are great in short leagues but require some sort of pitch management skills reguardless of league length. They are not bad by any stretch but not spectacular. I can see the argument for listing them as beginner.

Perhaps my list is skewed to the style people play in my area.

Maybe I should've places dwarves in intermediate.

Reason: ''
Young Caine: Old man, how is it that you hear these things?
Master Po: Young man, how is it that you do not?
nick_nameless
Emerging Star
Emerging Star
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:41 pm

Re: Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced teams

Post by nick_nameless »

funnyfingers wrote:There is a problem with pegging a team as great for a beginner. Do you want to win or do you want to learn to play well? I think you will find that if all the coaches are rookies, any of the Elf teams would tend to go to the top. Some of the teams that you think are great will lose because new coaches play too risky. It makes me cringe watching 1 dice block after 1 dice block after 1 dice block.

I agree that Dwarves are not good for a rookie coach. Chaos Dwarves are a lot more forgiving as are any of the Elf teams.
I think the most important thing for a new coach is to have some fun, and most people need to have some success in order to have some fun. Undead are a great rookie team because between the mummies and wights throwing blocks, low cost zombies and skellies getting the majority of the mashing, and the ghouls doing their thing, the team lends itself to a newer player having some success. Most of the elf teams do as well with a team full of AG 4.

Dwarves not so much. It takes new players a little while to understand blocking, and then a little while longer to understand how to get their players into the right position to throw those blocks. Scoring is not easy at first.

Dwarves were my first team. I am resillient and stuck with the game, but they weren't that much fun to play. Now that I have more experience, they can be fun...but then I like when both people at the table are having a good game. when I am having a good game with Dwarves, the other coach is definitely not having a good game because their players are getting knocked out or casualtied. I'll be reserved in how often I play them now. Other teams are just more fun for both coaches.

Reason: ''
Smurf
mattgslater's court jester
Posts: 1480
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:39 pm
Location: Bristol

Re: Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced teams

Post by Smurf »

I wouldn't put WE in beginner. Too many ways to screw up... not sure if any AV7 should be in beginner.

Chaos is odd, I would put in hard because the lack of xyz.

Goblins and Halflings should be in hard too.

Reason: ''
The Scrumpers (Wood Elf)
Timog (Chaos Dwarves)
Cursed Crypt (Khemri)
Fur Fur Furious (Skaven)
User avatar
mattgslater
King of Comedy
Posts: 7758
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:18 pm
Location: Far to the west, across the great desert, in the fabled Land of Comedy

Re: Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced teams

Post by mattgslater »

My defense of what I called "beginner" teams:
Amazons have uniform profiles and an all-Dodge roster, and do well to start.
Dwarfs teach you very quickly how to play the grind game. There are a couple things you learn quickly, and you're good to go.
Elves have it the same way from the other side. Learn the basic tactics, and against most coaches you can usually just roll your dice. Ditto Skaven and Wood Elves.
Orcs are very versatile, but have the same thing going as do Dwarfs.
Humans aren't obvious strategically, but they let you play to your tendencies, and have a nice combination of cheap and tough.
Undead are just fun, and aren't too hard to figure out.

Reason: ''
What is Nuffle's view? Through a window, two-by-three. He peers through snake eyes.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
User avatar
garion
Ex-Mega Star, now just a Super Star
Ex-Mega Star, now just a Super Star
Posts: 1687
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:59 pm

Re: Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced teams

Post by garion »

mattgslater wrote:How would you rank teams in terms of the relative skill requirements for the coach?

Here's my initial impression:

Beginner teams: Amazons, Dwarfs, Elves, Humans, Orcs, Skaven, Undead, Wood Elves.

Intermediate teams: Chaos, Chaos Dwarfs, Dark Elves, High Elves, Khemri, Lizardmen, Necromantic, Norse.

Advanced teams: Chaos Pact, Goblins, Halflings, Nurgle, Ogres, Slann, Underworld Pact, Vampires.
That looks perfect to me although I would swap dark elves with Pro Elves. Dark Elves start with more block and higher av and have 6 players that are one skill away from blodge or wrestle dodge. Because of all of that they are a lot more forgiving than pro elves early on. Pro elves are very squishy early on and I certainly find them the hardest of all the elf races to get to grips with although I could understand why people might argue that high elves are.

Reason: ''
User avatar
spubbbba
Legend
Legend
Posts: 2267
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:42 pm
Location: York

Re: Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced teams

Post by spubbbba »

garion wrote: Pro elves are very squishy early on and I certainly find them the hardest of all the elf races to get to grips with although I could understand why people might argue that high elves are.
I agree with you about Pro elfs, they are the hardest to use early on since they have some of the more specialist skills and their linemen seem to be more squishy than Wood elf ones even though they are identical aside from MA6.

If anything High Elves should be the easiest to get the hang of as they are really quite similar to humans when rookies. You cost more and lose 2 Blitzers, an Ogre, sure hands and dodge but gain AG4 across the board, safe throw and ST3 catchers.

I think people expect them to be soft like their fluff but the team can be pretty bashy at low TV.

Reason: ''
My past and current modelling projects showcased on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter.
User avatar
necrosis
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:34 pm
Location: Zurich (exile from N Ireland)

Re: Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced teams

Post by necrosis »

nick_nameless wrote:I maintain that Dwarves are not a beginners team. I have seen several beginners get frustrated and turned off to the game with Dwarves. Positioning and movement it critical, and beginners don't get it.
So we are saying because dwarves are boring to play and a beginner coach wont have learnt yet how to enjoy sucking the fun out of the a game by grinding, stalling and positioning, they might get scored on due to bad positioning and not enjoy it? ;)

Reason: ''
Kort
Experienced
Experienced
Posts: 120
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:53 am

Re: Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced teams

Post by Kort »

I would recommend Undead, Amazons or Orcs to a new player. IMHO those are the three easiest teams to play since they can avoid a lot of frustrations. They all have obvious initial lineups, a good mixture of starting skills, and are tough to destroy at a rookie level.

Advanced teams are obviously the non-tier 1 teams, plus Lizardmen, Khemri, Chaos and Nurgle. Those are the teams I would strongly advise a beginner against.

The rest is intermediate. I would not recommend them to beginners in the first place, but they are decent choices for any motivated player.

Reason: ''
Xadie
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 1:23 am
Location: Leipzig, Germany

Re: Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced teams

Post by Xadie »

That's how I would rate the teams:

-- Beginner --
Orcs
Dwarves
Undead
Chaos Dwarves
Necromantic

-- Intermediate --
Dark Elves
Amazons
High Elves
Lizardmen
Chaos
Khemri
Nurgle

-- Advanced --
Elves (each false step can mean complete destruction, high attrition)
Woodelves (each false step can mean complete destruction, high attrition)
Skaven (weak team on the long run)
Humans (relative weak team but with decent armor)
Norse (weak team on the long run)
Chaos Pact
Slaan

-- Teams which are just rubbish --
Vamps
Flings
Goblins
Ogres
Underworld

Reason: ''
User avatar
Thadrin
Moaning Git
Posts: 8080
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Norsca
Contact:

Re: Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced teams

Post by Thadrin »

If you mean teams to give to someone new to Blood Bowl:
Orcs, Amazons, Humans, High Elves, Skaven, Undead.
Fairly straightforward rosters, with few skills, that can demonstrate the basic mechanics of the game without requiring in depth knowledge.

Then move on to:
Dwarfs, Wood Elves, Lizardmen, Chaos, Dark Elves, Chaos Dwarfs, Norse.
Teams that require a little more tactical nuance to play but reward the coach who has mastered the basics, or which demonstrate a slightly more challenging play style.

Then:
Goblins, Ogres, Halflings, Underworld.
They're a bit crap, but these demonmstrate the stupid fun to be had in the game.

Experts only:
Nurgle, C. Pact, Slann, Pro Elf, Necromantic, Khemri, Vampire.
Teams that require real thought or understanding of the rules and the strengths and weaknesses of the teams to make work.

Reason: ''
I know a bear that you don't know. * ICEPELT IS MY HERO.
Master bleater. * Not in the clique.
Member of the "3 digit" club.
Post Reply