Vampire team Balance Ideas

[kurtlemalin]

Hello,
I would like to speak about vampire teams improvements.

Vampire team defects:

- Blood lust combined with reroll wich costs 70000K, it s horrible
More than 3 vampires and the team becomes highly unstable.
3 vampires need at least 5 rerolls so 110x3 + 70x5 = 710k

-Thrall armor is only 7, how many times i ve had 4 of them out the first turn ... too often.
You need at least 10 of them , if not the second half is really really hard.
When you fight a team with block/mighty blow/guard, which has only 11 players to improve the TV, it s not balanced!!

(some teams have long beards with 3 skills at the beginning for 70k, some have 6/3/3/7 with block or dodge for 50K)

disgression : block and dodge are the most usefull skills, they shoud add cost to the players who have it at the beginning.



I dont want no more bloodlust but (in order of my favorite
1) Vampires are really talentuous players, let's have them +1 as bonus for the PRO skill, so pro will work with 3+ for vampires. (and pro will a little more used
2) A third "class" will be good too, like a human goul (6/3/3/8 block/wrestle 60-70k) for example.
3)Reroll less expensive.
4)Blood points. Numbers of thralls /2 by game, one blood point will cancel one blood lust, and it will justify why human thrall are so weaky with their 7 av !!

I love blood bowl, but in my opinion the game needs some balance testing.


Sorry for my bad english, olivier.

[Corvidius]

Hey man, the Vampire team is a tough one to use but it was designed that way. The Vampires Statline of 6 4 4 8 with Regeneration and Hypnotic Gaze is awesome when the access to Strength, General and Agility skills is factored in. Yes Bloodlust is horrible and yes Thralls aren't great but Thralls are cheap and Vampires when they work are truly awe inspiring. they take a lot of getting used to but i think that's fine for a roster that was created around the same time as the current Ogre roster.

Pro is a great skill for vampires, Sidestep and Guard are too and they come with Hypno Gaze which is AWESOME.

[kurtlemalin]

hello Corvidius

I ve seen you re a veteran, nice to speak to someone experienced with blood bowl.
I am , a little, agree with but not totally.

I ve done a lot of match with vampires, but very very few people play this team, like many others (halflings, gobz, etc...)

however, I ve played a lot against orcs, dwarves, dwarves dwarves chaos, nurgle and so on, and if some teams are not so hard to beat, against dwarves i ve always been really really in a difficult position all allong the game because of the
hegemony of block as first skill.
Do you really think vampire against dwarves are favorite ?

Pro is nice but not as first skill, since block and dodge are the must-have

You ve spoken about ogres, against vampires team they are really powerfull, because might blow against av7 is awesome.

For now i would like some improvements for team of lower tier.

Do you know by the way if some news will be add to the game in a futur LRB7?

thx, olivier

[DoubleSkulls]

Did you know that Vampires are meant to be a difficult team that doesn't win as much as normal teams? The balance is where the designers wanted it to be. We made some small boosts in lrb6 over 5 (e.g. thralls can only be badly hurt by a bite) but they are pretty much playing at the level we want.

Now if you want to house rule vamps to be a tier 1 team then I've no issues with that, but that isn't designer intent.

[Glowworm]

Hi,
this has been discussed quite extensively already, I cannot link to the thread (as im rubbish) but im sure you'll find it by searching...

That said, im playing Vamps in a short league and am thinking of asking the commisar ( ) to house rule Av8 or thick skull on thralls. i know that will make them human linemen at 10k less however I believe it will make Vamps more attractive to play in short league formats, they have the potential to become competative at mid to high Tv but getting them there is like trying to "knit fog"

On the whole the teams enjoyable to play but you soon run out of Thrall against an experienced opponent (with only 3 vamps on the roster) you're is serious trouble. Im starting my 2nd match (against against another team thats only played once) with at least 230K in inducements.

I lost my match 1-0 but only because my opponent failed to pick up the ball (3+) 3 times and rolled 3 double skulls during the game otherwise it would have been much worse, Ive got 1 vamp and 1 Thrall on Mng's after being out numbered from the first dice roll (2KO's and a badly hurt on the LoS in turn one, at least 2 armour rolls where 8's!)

if your unhappy with the team, try a different one or ask your commisar to house rule either Thick skull or +1Av on thralls,either of which should fix the issue in shorter format leagues or 1 off games.

Just my thoughts

[legowarrior]

http://www.plasmoids.dk/bbowl/NTBB.htm

This this site.
Reduce rerolls to 60K, and give thralls thick skull.

[kurtlemalin]

Hello,

Indeed, i ve found a lot of threads, too much perhaps, about vampires teams

very thx for the link legowarrior, it s really interesting!

Do the creators of the game read some of theses posts ?
if yes , good game dudes , i love it
have a good day all !

[Corvidius]

In addition to comments by those more experienced than me, a couple of my friends used Vampires fairly successfully in our league

http://www.albabowl.co.uk/ebbl/index.ph ... &obj_id=71

http://www.albabowl.co.uk/ebbl/index.ph ... &obj_id=99

Pro was integral to their play style as it both mitigated the Bloodlust and made Blocks and Hypno Gazes more useful. Hypnotic Gaze is the reason people think Eldril is so useful and there's only one of him. If you Hypno Gaze a Dwarf he can't use Guard or Tackle and doesn't provide Tacklezones which makes cage breaking much much easier.

Don't get me wrong, I do think Vampires are one of the lower powered teams but as others have said they're meant to be.

ps. an explanation about the teams listed, we have a house rule about stat decreases that means that the players tv drops by as much as it would go up for an increase but the player can never drop below their starting cost.

[GalakStarscraper]

Do the creators of the game read some of theses posts ?
if yes , good game dudes , i love it
have a good day all !

Yes we do read them. Doubleskulls is one of the creators as am I.

However there is no plan for the far future for any more rule updates.

Tom

[garion]

For this theoretical vamp balance thread, I would personally change nothing on the actually roster that would effect anything in a game. I have found once your vamps all have their first skill they perform really well, for me they only struggle at rookie status and at a high TV where the thralls are just too useless to compete, but wins are still always within reach. But what I hate about Vampires is that vampires get killed really really easily at a high TV and it can set your team back 10 games or more, for me they are the hardest team in the game to recover from by a long long way and that for me at least is the most frustrating thing about them to the point where I just give up with them once the team takes a horrible beating.

Now I have no problems with players dying in any teams, I couldn't care less if i sacrafice a players life to win a match.

But what I was thinking for Vampires is give them a skill called invincible which means any SI or Death gets changes to MNG after the match. But I also think they should lose the ability to use the apoth. This would stop them being such a nightmare to develop and means I would probably be abe to stick with them for longer periods of time.

They are vamps, they should be impossible to hurt imo, except for Zara, bring back something of here old rule so steaks can permanently injure or kill vamps.

Either this or just make them av9

[TalonBay]

I'm playing vamps in our short league and I'd not change anything. Yes, they are difficult to play but that's exactly why I chose them. If you went through and improved all the weaker teams to the point where every team was at the same level then you'd remove the option for coaches to go play awkward teams, I like this about BB.

[voyagers_uk]

Yes we do read them. Doubleskulls is one of the creators as am I.

However there is no plan for the far future for any more rule updates.

Tom

Creators? really...?

Stewards maybe... I think Jervis may have an issue with being thrown under the bus...

[tchatter]

Stewards... I don't think conveys the amount of work that the BBRC (sans JJ) actually did on the LRB.

From my understanding... JJ sort of stayed out of it until the very end of discussions when he would come in and approve or veto what the BBRC came up with.

Creators may be a stretch, but I think the BBRC did create much of the LRB without input from JJ until after things were agreed upon by them and playtested (I could be wrong).

[dode74]

I think Tom's just using the same word as kurtlemalin to prevent confusion.

[GalakStarscraper]

I think Tom's just using the same word as kurtlemalin to prevent confusion.

Correct ... English is not his first language ... just trying to help.

And for the record ... JJ gave Ian and I 1 1/2 year were he told us to CREATE whatever rules we thought were right for the game without his input whatsoever. So take that for what it worth.

Oh and voyagers said he was joking to me via PM ... to prevent this thread from becoming a commentary on his comments ... he probably needs to remember to add (jk) to the end of his posts.

Tom