Brand new Poll for Araby

[legowarrior]

I feel, perhaps wrongly, that an inspired Araby team cannot be properly created using the Human roster, much like the creators of Blood Bowl felt that the Norse teams and Amazon teams were distinct from the human teams, and how many of the community feels that there are big and necessary differences between the different undead teams or elf teams. So this is my humble submission that I hope some of you find interesting enough to comment on. Thank you for your time.


The araby team is a team that specializes in positioning and placement. As a whole they benefit from having faster then average movement, and with the majority of the team starting with side step, they have the advantage on defense of landing where the would do the most good. This allows this a better position to field a counter attack, which is much needed, since they lack the toughness to go head to head with more bashy teams, or the speed to outcome or catch fast teams. For the Araby team, positioning is king, and with their starting skill, this can be achieved.


The key to the Araby team is not the Werejackel, a distant cousin on the werewolf. Very fast and with claw, the werejackel can play as the ball handler or as a blitzer, but be carefully, as they lack the toughness of the larger northern cousins.


Presenting the Team!

0-16 Linesmen - 50K - 6 / 3 / 3 / 7 - Side Step - G/ASP

0-2 Assassins - 70K - 6 / 3 / 3 / 7 - Dodge, Stab - GA/SP

0-2 Throwers - 70K - 6 / 3 / 3 / 7 - Side Step, Pass - GP/AS

0-4 Blitzers - 90K - 7 / 3 / 3 / 7 - Side Step, Block - GS/AP

0-2 Werejackels - 120K - 8 / 3 / 4 / 7 - Regeneration, Claws, Nerves of Steel - GA/SP

Rerolls - 60K
Apothecary - Yes

Quick run down of the team
Linesmen - A boring piece, much like that of the Amazons or the Norse, but instead Block or Dodge, they get Side Step. Side Step is a great skill to have, but hardly the first choice skill that Block or Dodge is. None the less, having it on a majority of the team allows the Araby Team Captain the choice of where his players will fall. Although without dodge, and only 7 armor value, they might not get up again afterwards. Useful skills for an Araby Linesmen might include Block or Wrestle, and Fend, and on doubles Dodge. The best benefit is that you'll have a very tough cage that is hard to get through.

Assassins - The first piece with Agility access, and they don't even get Side Step. The assassin doesn't train along the same lines of the rest of the team. Instead of side step, they get the beneficial skill of Dodge. This helps them break away from tough opponents and allows them to use their other more unique skill of Stab on a thrower or nearby runner. Dodge keeps them stand so that they can stab some more. Not all teams require or want Assassins, much like you don't always see them on the Dark Elf Team.

Throwers - The common thrower gains the skill of pass. Not truly a passing team, since no one starts with Catch, they do benefit from being able to get Leader if they skill up.

Blitzers - Much like the pro Elves, they are Blitzers with Side Step. Side Step and block means that getting hit means you can usually position the player to a good position to hit back. Although with 7 Armor value, you might not get a chance to hit back.

Werejackels - these fast piece have to do many things. Nerves of Steel is to show the cunning and fearlessness of the Jackel. They aren't the harsh brutal killers that Werewolves are, but more cunning predictors. Nerves of Steel helps them pick up a ball that is bouncing loose in a scrum. Skills for them include dodge, leap and block, so its a tall order. Luckily, they start with 4 agility, helping them to get into position to score or blitz.

All comments are in order. I realize that this team is definitely tier one, but if it is overpowered, I wouldn't mind hearing suggestions to depower it. I would prefer that people tried to keep the cost value of the team the same, so if you could suggest alternative skills that would be cool.

[lerchey]

Hm. I proposed a monk team a while back. The line all had side step. Most folks informed me that that was way too powerful. Though I am not a good enough coach to take advantage of it, apparently enough side step makes the team very, very good at pulling off chain pushes.

With that caveat, it's a pretty neat team.

[legowarrior]

I can see why they would think that, Side step in mass is pretty good. That is why Assassin and Werejackals don't have.

But I think it's overall benefit is really rather limited. I would think that the mass Block on Norse or Dodge on Amazons is a much stronger skill to have starting out in this game.

Maybe I can give it back to the assassin, and remove it from the Blitzers. What could I replace it with?

Anyway, with Araby, I wanted to focus on the idea of players that can move around the pitch strategically. I didn't want to 7/3/3/ because the Skaven already have that locked down. Sure Feet seems too weak to base a team around, and Dodge was already taken. I thought Side Step was a nice way to represent a mostly fragile team that had the ability to reposition itself quickly. It doesn't keep players on the field or anything.
To make up for the power of Side step, the key players, the Were Jackels, didn't start with Side Step, and neither do the Assassins. Also, Stab is kind of a weak skill, so I thought having a player start with Stab instead of faster movement or catch might be considered by some a draw back on an agility based player.

As always, feedback of any sort is welcome.

[lerchey]

Well, like I said, I think it's a pretty decent team design. Like you, I wanted to do something a bit unique when I made my monks, so the line have SS, and positionals don't. The positions I created had 2 witch-elf wannabes, 2 blitzer wannabes, and 2 thrower wannabes. No big guys.

I played a few games with mine, and they did OK, but took a real pounding in blocks - whole team has 7 AV.

[Dzerards]

I'm not really digging the Werejackels, AG 4 on them is too much, but I like the theme.

I would give the Linos Fend instead of side step, give the assassin a move boost and side step instead of dodge.

I'd drop the blitzers and Werejackels and add:
0-2 ninjas 7 3 3 7 Wrestle, Dodge, Side Step GA /PS
0-2 Sumo 6 4 2 8 Stand Firm GS/AP

Don't know how you'd cost them though. Probably both of them a 100k.

That would be a real fun team if pretty fragile. Rerolls should probably be in line with Humans considering how breakable every one is.

[legowarrior]

Wait, Ninja and Sumo?

I can see Fend on the Linesmen, but that is a step on down for the Linesmen... I can see where you are going with the Assassin too, and I'm generally in favor of it.

This was an alternative idea I was thinking of, that I wanted to post.


0-16 Linesmen - 50K - 6 / 3 / 3 / 7 - Side Step - G/ASP

0-2 Throwers - 70K - 6 / 3 / 3 / 7 - Pass, Safe Throw - GP/AS

0-2 Assassins - 70K - 7 / 3 / 3 / 7 - Stab - GA/SP

0-4 Blitzers - 90K - 6 / 3 / 3 / 8 - Block, Side Step, GS/AP

0-2 WereJackel - 120K - 9 / 3 / 3 / 7 - Regeneration, Claw, Nerves of Steel - GA/SP

Does that look a little better?
Nothing is set in stone yet, I'm still feeling it out, but in general, I'm looking to create a running team with Assassins that doesn't end up being Dark Elf Light.

Heck, I'd like to make a Passing Team with Assassins, but I don't know many successful passing teams that aren't Elves to being with.

[Gaixo]

(First off: I see it a lot, but I don't get the "s" in the middle of linemen. They're line players, not match officials. )

Not at all into the werejackals.

Agree with Fend on the linemen. All that Sidestep is too much.

I would give the blitzers Frenzy instead of Block and call them dervishes (not my idea, obviously, most previous Araby teams have had a dervish). Might also add Jump-Up and make them more expensive/limit them to 2.

Maybe eunuchs with 5/4/3/8 and Fend or Stand Firm? Or maybe even Grab instead/in addition. It would be an interesting team if the linemen and eunuchs stymied your opponent while the dervishes and assassins dart around opportunistically.

[mattgslater]

1MGC
2x Werejackal
4x Blitzer
1x Assassin
4x Lineman
1x Apoth
3x TRR

Wicked, is what that is. Ultimately, hire another Assassin and a Thrower. I have no idea how a comparable elf team can have a prayer against such a monstrosity! Bashers may fare better, but a creative coach can get just as much mileage from massed SS as from massed Dodge. For instance, X-cages don't do well against all-SS teams.

A few suggestions, either together or a la carte:

1) Replace Dodge on the Assassins with Shadowing.

2) Take out the Werejackals (sorry ) and replace with a big guy, like a Djinn or something. Real simple Djinn profile: 5/5/2/8 Loner, Regenerate, 150k?
2a) Alternately, keep the Werejackals and replace the Blitzers with an expensive 0-2 non-Block position, like a Dervish (6/3/3/7 Frenzy, Jump Up, Side Step, Thick Skull, 100k).

3) Maybe make the linos more traditional, but put Side Step on all the positionals? What if the linos were geared to stink, like with Shadowing instead, but the whole team had Shadowing, and the 0-4 Blitzers and 0-2 Assassins started with Side Step? Or just the Blitzers, but they were 7/3/3/8 Block/SS/Shad, at 110k?

[legowarrior]

I do like the Second and the third idea. I thought about the Djinn before going with the Werejackels, but Werejackels just seem more interesting.

I have much to think about about though and I'll post an update later on this weekend.
Thanks for the comments. Don't forget to Vote. Remember if you don't vote, you don't get to complain!

[legowarrior]

This is taking Suggestion 2a into account.

0-16 Linesmen - 50K - 6 / 3 / 3 / 7 - Side Step - G/ASP

0-2 Assassins - 90K - 7 / 3 / 3 / 7 - Shadowing, Stab - GA/SP

0-2 Throwers - 70K - 6 / 3 / 3 / 7 - Pass, Safe Throw - GP/AS

0-2 Dervishes (Blitzers) - 100K - 7 / 3 / 3 / 7 - Side Step, Frenzy, Thick Skull - GS/AP

0-2 Werejackels - 120K - 8 / 3 / 4 / 7 - Regeneration, Claws, Nerves of Steel - GA/SP

Rerolls - 60K
Apothecary - Yes

This is taking suggestion 3ish? I just dropped Side Step All together.

0-16 Linesmen - 50K - 6 / 3 / 3 / 7 - Shadowing - G/ASP

0-2 Assassins - 70K - 6 / 3 / 3 / 7 - Dodge, Stab - GA/SP

0-2 Throwers - 70K - 6 / 3 / 3 / 7 - Safe Throw, Pass - GP/AS

0-4 Blitzers - 90K - 7 / 3 / 3 / 7 - Frenzy, Block - GS/AP

0-2 Werejackels - 120K - 8 / 3 / 4 / 7 - Regeneration, Claws, Side Step - GA/SP

So, what would be a practice skill that I could give all the Linesmen without making them uber or plain sucky? I want to emphasis the maneuverability of the team.

A short list might include Dodge, Jump Up, Shadowing, Fend, Side Step, Sure Feet, Sprint, Leap, Nerves of Steel (getting the ball despite the masses) Dump off (A team full of Dump off would be odd), or Frenzy.... S

[mattgslater]

2, with proper costing on Assassins:
0-16 Linemen 6/3/3/7 Side Step G 50k
0-2 Throwers 6/3/3/7 Pass, Side Step GP 70k
0-2 Assassins 6/3/3/7 Dodge, Stab GA 80k
0-4 Blitzers 7/3/3/7 Block, Side Step GS 90k
0-1 Djinn 6/5/2/8 Loner, Regenerate S 150k

2a: as original roster, but replace the 0-4 Blitzers with
0-2 Dervishes 7/3/3/7 Frenzy, Jump Up, Side Step GAS 100k

3, twisted about a bit.
0-16 Linemen 6/3/3/7 Shadowing GA 50k
0-2 Thrower 6/3/3/7 Nerves of Steel, Pass, Shadowing GAP 70k
0-2 Assassin 7/3/3/7 Shadowing, Side Step, Stab GA 90k
0-2 Blitzer 7/3/3/7 Block, Shadowing, Side Step GAS 100k
0-2 Werejackal 8/2/3/7 Claws, Dodge, Regenerate, Shadowing GA 90k
0-1 Djinn 6/5/2/8 Loner, Regenerate S 150k
TRRs: 50k

[legowarrior]

Why is 30K on the Assassin? Does that mean the shadowing is 10K?

[mattgslater]

Why is 30K on the Assassin? Does that mean the shadowing is 10K?

I thought the Assassin was undercosted. He's basically an Apo'able Ghoul with Stab over +MA, and should cost more than a Ghoul does. The other version just had a lot of skills on a nice profile.

[legowarrior]

I would say that rather than comparing him to Ghouls, you should compare him to Dark Elf Assassins, but Dodge instead of Shadowing, and with lower agility, for 20K less.
If you break down the cost of the Dark Elf Assassin, you have a 50K for the 6/3/4/7 stat line, and 40k worth of skills, 20K for shadowing, 20K for the Stab.
The cost equation that I use comes from this site:
http://www.cyanide-studio.com/forumBB/v ... 61#p416661

[TalonBay]

0-16 Linesmen - 50K - 6 / 3 / 3 / 7 - Side Step - G/ASP
0-2 Assassins - 70K - 6 / 3 / 3 / 7 - Dodge, Stab - GA/SP
0-2 Throwers - 70K - 6 / 3 / 3 / 7 - Side Step, Pass - GP/AS
0-4 Blitzers - 90K - 7 / 3 / 3 / 7 - Side Step, Block - GS/AP
0-2 Werejackels - 120K - 8 / 3 / 4 / 7 - Regeneration, Claws, Nerves of Steel - GA/SP
Rerolls - 60K
Apothecary - Yes

Side-step is powerful when there's lots of it but as you say there's Amazons and Norse out there with different skills spammed throughout the team so it's not awful by itself. I like the idea of something different but IMO you can't then push the rest of the team too much.

Linemen: these are fine, fragile but with an interesting skill. Not sure about the price as they're effectively starting with a doubles skill.

Assassins: the comment about the dark elves not always taking theirs is because he's a weak link on that team (shadowing is rubbish with low MA and he's AV7 on a mostly AV8 team), this doesn't apply here as these two are no-brainers given they start with dodge. I think jump-up would be more interesting, fits with the agile image and doesn't over-endow the team with the dodge/SS combo to start with. If the DE assassin started with dodge he's be in a lot more teams IMO.

Throwers: fine, a lineman with Pass and pass access.

Blitzers: too many for a start, total positionals is heading up to 10 and more than a third of your starting lineup starts with block/SS. Max of two of these or drop the assassin or WW. Other than that they're fine, possibly I'd up armour these guys but thematically you may want to keep the pure AV7.

Werejackals: this is the weakest link in this list design for me, everyone knows WW are cool but adding them to this team is too much IMO. A MA 8, ST 3, AG 4 piece that starts with claws, regen and NOS...awesome! It's like an uber gutter runner combined with a mutated blitzer that doesn't die! If these guys were on a team where the other players were all suitably awful then possibly but this team is competent even without these two. What are they meant to be? Catchers, then drop the claw/strength? Blitzers, drop the AG/NOS? IMO, just cut them from the list and bring in a big guy with a negatrait, gives the team some punch but with some balance too.