Brand new Poll for Araby

Got a great idea and/or proposal for BloodBowl?

Moderator: TFF Mods

Which Skill best represent the Araby, (Like Block for the Norse or Dodge for the Amazons

Frenzy
2
10%
Fend
1
5%
Shadowing
5
25%
Jump Up
3
15%
Side Step
2
10%
Sure Feet
1
5%
Nerves of Steel
2
10%
None of the above
4
20%
 
Total votes: 20

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mattgslater
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Re: A proposed Araby Team Roster

Post by mattgslater »

legowarrior wrote:I would say that rather than comparing him to Ghouls, you should compare him to Dark Elf Assassins, but Dodge instead of Shadowing, and with lower agility, for 20K less.
That's off, too: Dodge + 20k > +AG + Shadowing. The DE Assassin is costed properly, even if he doesn't properly have a place on the team (the player's problem is his suck profile on a "deadly dozen" style team). This is the only guy with Dodge, and comes with no appreciable drawback, so he's a no-brainer; at a minimum, this is an 80k piece.

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What is Nuffle's view? Through a window, two-by-three. He peers through snake eyes.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
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Re: A proposed Araby Team Roster

Post by legowarrior »

I always felt that the Assassin would play the role of Catchers, with Agility Access, with the Werejackels being good for blitzering and whatnot.
I really like the idea of Werejackels, but I can see that they would be really powerfully, and might be too much on this team. I'll work on making a toned down version. Get rid of the Regeneration and Claws (Representing the fact that they are not as tough as Werewolves) and replacing it with Dodge, to show they are more agile and quick. I gave Assassin increased speed and Shadowing in exchange for Dodge and +20K cost.
Got rid of the Blitzers and replaced them Dervishes. In the end though, like Dragon Warriors for the High Elves, they are one and the same. Side Step was replaced with Dauntless, a skill with limited usefulness. Then I added the Djinn. Replaced Side Step on the Throwers with Safe Throw. Not sure why, just didn't want Side Step on the Throwers

0-16 Linesmen - 50K - 6 / 3 / 3 / 7 - Side Step - G/ASP
0-2 Throwers - 70K - 6 / 3 / 3 / 7 - Safe Throw, Pass - GP/AS
0-2 Assassins - 90K - 7 / 3 / 3 / 7 - Shadowing, Stab - GA/SP
0-2 Dervishes - 90K - 7 / 3 / 3 / 7 - Dauntless, Block - GS/AP
0-2 Werejackels - 110K - 8 / 3 / 4 / 7 - Dodge, Nerves of Steel, - GA/SP
0-1 Djinn -6/5/2/8 - 140K - Loner, Bone Head, Mighty Blow, - S/ASP
Rerolls - 60K
Apothecary - Yes

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Re: A proposed Araby Team Roster

Post by legowarrior »

mattgslater wrote:
legowarrior wrote:I would say that rather than comparing him to Ghouls, you should compare him to Dark Elf Assassins, but Dodge instead of Shadowing, and with lower agility, for 20K less.
That's off, too: Dodge + 20k > +AG + Shadowing. The DE Assassin is costed properly, even if he doesn't properly have a place on the team (the player's problem is his suck profile on a "deadly dozen" style team). This is the only guy with Dodge, and comes with no appreciable drawback, so he's a no-brainer; at a minimum, this is an 80k piece.

I would argue, and the rules I think agree, that +1 movement is much better than any skill. Consider that Dodge on any player with Agility Access increases the cost of the player by 20K, while, being lucky enough to roll a 10 on the skills chart means that you gain +1 movement, at a cost increase of 30K.
On similar looking players, like Amazon Catchers, you see that having two skills but one lower movement is the same cost as the Ghoul, which has only one skill, but faster.


This is all besides the point, since I just replaced Dodge with Shadowing. Let's see how good the player is now!

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Re: A proposed Araby Team Roster

Post by dode74 »

Shadowing at MA7 is excellent. His above average MA means the skill has a very good chance of being used successfully.
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Re: A proposed Araby Team Roster

Post by TalonBay »

legowarrior wrote:0-16 Linesmen - 50K - 6 / 3 / 3 / 7 - Side Step - G/ASP
0-2 Throwers - 70K - 6 / 3 / 3 / 7 - Safe Throw, Pass - GP/AS
0-2 Assassins - 90K - 7 / 3 / 3 / 7 - Shadowing, Stab - GA/SP
0-2 Dervishes - 90K - 7 / 3 / 3 / 7 - Dauntless, Block - GS/AP
0-2 Werejackels - 110K - 8 / 3 / 4 / 7 - Dodge, Nerves of Steel, - GA/SP
0-1 Djinn -6/5/2/8 - 140K - Loner, Bone Head, Mighty Blow, - S/ASP
Rerolls - 60K
Apothecary - Yes
It's toned down a bit but also lost some of what made it stick together, spamming a team with a particular skill does give it a particular theme (even if sometimes it's not massively useful on every piece).

If you're going with the side-step theme then I'd say stick with it, so throwers and blitzers get SS as they're linemen with improvements.

The shadowing/stab assassin has been done (badly) on the DE team, something else agile that could be useful...jump-up? Get's to make an AG roll for a free block even if down, adds to the mobility of the team.

I think you're way off with the AG4 werewolf still, there's a reason few teams get AG4 players and I don't think it belongs on this team. With dodge/NOS it's a catcher style piece but it's better than the pro-elf catchers and that's their "thing". If you want a catcher then AG3 with catch isn't a bad start, maybe go with diving catch as it's got a couple of benefits, catch in a nearby square plus a poor man's NOS if you're in a tackle zone. They need something for character though, they're not the lightning blitzers that the necro's are or the heavier/slower norse. Most MA8 pieces are ST2, this would fit with the jackal thing rather than the wolf thing and would open them up to being interesting. Shadowing is sort of what Jackals do while the big cats are hunting, they harass them until they get a piece of the action (without direct confrontation).

How about:

0-16 Linesmen - 6 / 3 / 3 / 7 - Side Step - G/ASP
0-2 Throwers - 6 / 3 / 3 / 7 - Side-step, Pass (or Accurate?) - GP/AS
0-2 Blitzers - 7 / 3 / 3 / 7 - Side-step, Block - GS/AP
0-2 Assassins - 7 / 3 / 3 / 7 - Jump-up, Stab - GA/SP
0-2 Werejackels - 8 / 2 / 3 / 7 - Shadowing, Catch, Diving Catch - GA/SP
0-1 Djinn -6/5/1/8 - Loner, Really-Stupid, Mighty Blow, Stand-Firm - S/GAP

I've left out prices as I don't know the formulas well.

So, cheap linemen with a quirk (AV for a doubles positioning skill, I'd take that so I think this helps the team). Throwers which work in combo with a genuine catching piece. Blitzers that are a genuine pain for your opponent. Assassins that are actually useful. Werejackals that are different to all the other were's out there and not uber-pieces. The big guy contrasts with the rest of the team as a road-block piece.

Negatives are no high AG, limited ST, limited starting Block/Dodge and fragile.

Overall the team has a spread of skill access and will rely on it's higher than average mobility.

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Re: A proposed Araby Team Roster

Post by legowarrior »

I See where you are coming from TalonBay, and I can get behind agility 3 Werejackels, but the reason I wanted Agility 4 werejackels is because so few teams have anything like that, and it is a nice contrast to the strength 4 Norse players. I am in favor of side step and Jump Up instead of anything else, but I'm kind of against strength 2 Werejackels. Not religiously, but I do want the Werejackels to be a central part of the team, and to me that means strength 3. I do really like the idea of diving catch on them though.

May I ask why you consider Stand Firm and Really Stupid on the Djinn? Is it because they are really stubborn and purposely mishear commands?


Dode74, did you mean dodge or shadowing? If Shadowing, I thought the same thing. The assassin would be very good on defense.
What would happen if the whole team had shadowing? Wouldn't that be silly. Bash teams would have a field day, while it would be worse then having tackle on everyone for elf teams

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Re: A proposed Araby Team Roster

Post by mattgslater »

Safe Throw? AG3? Meh. How about Nerves?

I'm sorry to say it, but the werejackal idea isn't the fluffiest from an Arabyan perspective. What about something that comes from Arabian myth? Frankly, a BC-variant would be fluffier, as would a Ghoul. If your goal is an AG4 piece, though, neither is that. There is a tradition of ghuls turning into hyaenas, but not jackals. A werehyaena would basically be a werewolf, so if you have an idea for an Arabyan-themed Necro team, it would be easy to pull off and stick to historical mythology. Know what a marid is? A marid is a nasty old man who jumps on your back and makes you run around and work for him. You could have a ST2/AG4 Dauntless/Wrestle/DT piece....

0-16 Lino 6/3/3/7 Sidestep G 50k
0-2 Thrower 6/3/3/7 (Nerves or Safe Throw), Pass GP 70k
0-2 Assassin 7/3/3/7 Shadowing, Stab GA 90k
0-2 Blitzer 7/3/3/7 Block, Side Step GS 90k
0-2 Marid 6/2/4/7 Dodge, Dauntless, Wrestle GA 90k
0-1 Djinn 6/5/2/8 Loner, Regeneration S 150k

Have you thought about having two distinct Blitzer positions? so you'd have 0-2 each Throwers, Dervishes, Assassins and Blitzers, plus a Djinn? Then you could have four Block players but only two Block/SS types.

0-16 Lino 6/3/3/7 Side Step G 50k
0-2 Thrower 6/3/3/7 (Nerves or Safe Throw), Pass GP 70k
0-2 Assassin 7/3/3/7 Shadowing, Stab GA 90k
0-2 Blocker 6/3/3/8 Block, Side Step GS 90k
0-2 Dervish 7/3/3/7 Block, Dauntless, Frenzy GS 90k
0-1 Djinn 6/5/2/8 Loner, Regeneration S 150k

Or what about with more of a Catcher-type position, in lieu of the Assassin, and then with such a player with Stab as a Star?

0-16 Lino 6/3/3/7 Side Step G 50k
0-2 Thrower 6/3/3/7 (Nerves or Safe Throw), Pass GP 70k
0-2 Runner 7/2/3/7 Catch, Dodge, Jump Up GA 70k
0-2 Blocker 6/3/3/8 Block, Side Step GS 90k
0-2 Dervish 7/3/3/7 Block, Dauntless, Frenzy GS 90k
0-1 Djinn 6/5/2/8 Loner, Regeneration S 150k

The "gimmick" of the Djinn, the way I see it, is that he is a smart big guy. He doesn't have the muscle or toughness of an Ogre, but he's not nearly so dumb, either. He's supposed to be the kind of big guy you can use as a true workhorse: give him Break Tackle, and he's a force anywhere on the pitch. He's also not a creature of this world, so he regenerates to reflect this. I suppose you could give him Break Tackle and MA5 instead of MA6.

Reason: ''
What is Nuffle's view? Through a window, two-by-three. He peers through snake eyes.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
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Re: A proposed Araby Team Roster

Post by legowarrior »

http://www.acacialand.com/Mythology.html


Good source, maybe we can find something in here.

I envision the Araby team to in some ways parallel the Norse team, with everyone having the one skill, but instead of being a bash team, they would be a dash team.
Each would have 2 team specific players and 2 generic players and a big guy.

The Norse have Berserkers and Ulfwerners, while the Araby Team have Assassins and something else (I like were jackels, but I could go with Dervishes, although if you read about them, they are just travelling religious people)
Norse have Runners and Throwers, the Araby team would have Blitzers and Throwers.
The Norse have 2 strength 4 guys, the Araby team would have 2 Agility 4 guys.
Each would have a Big Guy.

0-16 Linesmen - 50K - 6 / 3 / 3 / 7 - Undetermined Skill - G/ASP
0-2 Throwers - 70K - 6 / 3 / 3 / 7 - Undetermined Skill, Hail Mary Pass - GP/AS
0-2 Assassins - 90K - 7 / 3 / 3 / 7 - Undetermined Skill, Stab - GA/SP
0-2 Blitzers - 90K - 6 / 3 / 3 / 8 - Undetermined Skill, Block - GS/AP
0-2 Dervishes - 110K - 7 / 3 / 4 / 7 - Frenzy, Dauntless, Diving Catch - GA/SP
0-1 Djinn -6/5/2/8 - 140K - Loner, Bone Head, Mighty Blow, - S/ASP
Rerolls - 60K
Apothecary - Yes





NEW POLL - Check it out!!!!:)
On second thought, if the Norse can have their version of the Werewolf, then the Araby team can have their version of the Ghoul, or Ghul. Now we just need to come up with a stat line for them.

Anyway, now you know my original intend. I hope to some of the best ideas, and discuss them, and create something everyone might be willing to try out some day.

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Re: A proposed Araby Team Roster

Post by mattgslater »

I've always wanted to see an all-Nerves team.

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What is Nuffle's view? Through a window, two-by-three. He peers through snake eyes.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
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Re: A proposed Araby Team Roster

Post by legowarrior »

It would certainly make taking the ball in a scrum a lot easier, but on everyone? I can see it.

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Re: A proposed Araby Team Roster

Post by TalonBay »

legowarrior wrote:I See where you are coming from TalonBay, and I can get behind agility 3 Werejackels, but the reason I wanted Agility 4 werejackels is because so few teams have anything like that, and it is a nice contrast to the strength 4 Norse players.


I think it upsets the balance too much to have AG4 players added to teams without giving them big weaknesses, the skaven team is all about the GRs and they've got ST2. Very fast, AG4, ST3 pieces are out-elfing elf teams, sure I'd love to have whatever team I'm considering to have a great ball handling piece like this but ultimately it's got to be about the balance IMO.
legowarrior wrote:I am in favor of side step and Jump Up instead of anything else, but I'm kind of against strength 2 Werejackels. Not religiously, but I do want the Werejackels to be a central part of the team, and to me that means strength 3. I do really like the idea of diving catch on them though.
They're too much though, with speed and st and ag. The wood elf team is all about the wardancers and you're creating two of these here IMO, but with a strong/cheap lineup to go with it rather than the limited team you can afford with the woodies.
legowarrior wrote:May I ask why you consider Stand Firm and Really Stupid on the Djinn? Is it because they are really stubborn and purposely mishear commands?
Purely as interesting skills, the team's theme is positioning and this is the thing that minimises the impact of really stupid. As a big guy he was a bit bland, almost like it was just a chance to get some ST5 on the team, so I added a "positioning" skill from the strength list. Break Tackle would possibly be a better choice thematically?

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Re: Brand new Poll for Araby

Post by mattgslater »

Fluff-wise, Djinni shouldn't be RS or WA or Bonehead. They don't have to be ST5.

AG3 Nerves Roster as a funky hybrid of PE and Norse:

V1:
0-16 Lineman 6/3/3/7 Nerves of Steel G 50k
0-2 Thrower 6/3/3/7 Nerves of Steel, Pass, Safe Throw GP 80k
0-2 Catcher 8/2/3/7 Diving Catch, Dodge, Nerves of Steel GA 80k
0-2 Dervish 7/3/3/7 Block, Dauntless, Nerves of Steel GS 90k
0-2 Djinn 6/4/3/8 Float (VLL), Nerves of Steel GAS 130k
0-1 Ifrit 5/5/2/8 Loner, Disturbing Presence, Frenzy, Mighty Blow, Nerves of Steel, Wild Animal S 150k
TRR 60k

V2, with DE flavor mixed in:
0-16 Lineman 6/3/3/7 Nerves of Steel G 50k
0-2 Runner 7/3/3/7 Dump-Off, Nerves of Steel GP 80k
0-2 Assassin 7/3/3/7 Nerves of Steel, Shadowing, Stab GA 90k
0-2 Blitzer 7/3/3/8 Block, Nerves of Steel, Side Step GS 100k
0-2 Djinn 6/4/3/8 Float (VLL), Nerves of Steel GAS 130k
0-1 Ifrit 5/5/2/8 Loner, Disturbing Presence, Frenzy, Mighty Blow, Nerves of Steel, Wild Animal S 150k
TRR 60k

Reason: ''
What is Nuffle's view? Through a window, two-by-three. He peers through snake eyes.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
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Re: Brand new Poll for Araby

Post by legowarrior »

I'm partial to the second one at this moment, but it does make it a more bashy team then I previously envisioned, but what the heck. I think the pricing is a little cheap though.
I'm cool with Nerves of Steel, but why on the Araby team?

Also, GAS is powerful...

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Re: Brand new Poll for Araby

Post by legowarrior »

How about this?
But I'm yet convinced that Nerves of Steel is what the Araby should have.
0-16 Lineman 6/3/3/7 Nerves of Steel G 50k
0-2 Thrower 6/3/3/7 Nerves of Steel, Pass GP 70k
0-2 Assassin 7/3/3/7 Nerves of Steel, Stab GA 90k
0-2 Catcher 7/3/3/7 Nerves of Steel, Catch GA 90k
0-2 Djinn 6/4/3/8 Very Long Legs, Leap, Nerves of Steel GS 120k
0-1 Ifrit 5/5/2/8 Loner, Nerves of Steel, Frenzy, Mighty Blow, Wild Animal S 140k

Reason: ''
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Re: Brand new Poll for Araby

Post by mattgslater »

Thrower, Assassin, and Catcher are too expensive (formulas be damned; two B skills and an access category isn't worth 40k on a rat template), Djinn is too cheap. I'd give the Thrower another B skill, replace Catch on the Catcher with something better or else cut the price to 80k, do the same with the Assassin, either adding Shadowing or cutting the cost to 80k, and bump the Djinn up to compare to a BC at 130k. Given the lame-o linos, I'd say 130k would be a minimum, and the true comparison really says 140k to me. Could take Nerves off.

Djinni are supposed to be really big and really smart. That's why I gave them GAS access. You could make them AG2, at a cost that compares to a Were, probably at 110k or 120k. Then the leap is a 4+. Or you could do AG2, and replace Leap and VLL with BT. 6/4/2/8 BT/NOS GS is a wicked piece, to be sure, well worth 120k, if an Ulf is worth 110k.

Ooh... 6/4/3/8 GAPS 110k, kind of like a CW. There's another option.

Ifrit is better than Yhetee, no? I guess he can't get ClawMB. But he's AG2 with Nerves, so he's easier to skill than any other WA big guy. That's got to be worth something. Yeah, I guess 140k is about right.

Reason: ''
What is Nuffle's view? Through a window, two-by-three. He peers through snake eyes.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
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