A few ideas that I have come to my brain...

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graeme27uk
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A few ideas that I have come to my brain...

Post by graeme27uk »

Just ideas not thought through with much thought in the manner of BB.

1) Wizard levels

Would it break the game if you could increase the potency of wizards. So a Level 1 wizard is the normal "cast one spell per game", Level 2 is 2 spells per game, and so on up to level 4 which is 4 spells per game.

2) Race specific wizard spells

So for example, Orcs would have "Da Krunch" or "Waaaargh!".

3) More apothecaries

Teams being allowed more than one apothecary. So teams can either use additional apothecaries to re-roll a "heal" roll or use them an additional number of times.

4) Special "star player" wizards, assistant coaches, etc

So for example maybe Grumbold the Magnificent has a special spell but like star players can only be bought with inducement funds. Maybe you hire "Svengore-Van-Erikson" who gives your team a bonus of some kind (don't know what yet).

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lerchey
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Re: A few ideas that I have come to my brain...

Post by lerchey »

graeme27uk wrote:Just ideas not thought through with much thought in the manner of BB.

1) Wizard levels

Would it break the game if you could increase the potency of wizards. So a Level 1 wizard is the normal "cast one spell per game", Level 2 is 2 spells per game, and so on up to level 4 which is 4 spells per game.
Yes, I think it would break the game. Wizards are expensive for a reason, and while the spells can be iffy in practice, they can also be game changers. For the same reasons that the BBRC/JJ limited teams to only being able to induce 1 wizard, having "1 wizard that can cast multiple times" would completely break the rule.
graeme27uk wrote: 2) Race specific wizard spells

So for example, Orcs would have "Da Krunch" or "Waaaargh!".
While this could be interesting, it opens up a whole new dimension of play balance issues. First, you have to design each race specific wizard and their spells. Do all of them get 2? Should race-specific (RSW) Wizards be limited to only 1 spell? How well do the spells balance against other race specific spell? agains lightning bolt and fire ball? There are what, 24 races now? That would mean either 24 or 48 "race specific" spells...
graeme27uk wrote: 3) More apothecaries

Teams being allowed more than one apothecary. So teams can either use additional apothecaries to re-roll a "heal" roll or use them an additional number of times.
You can get wandering apos as inducements. While I would not have any strong opposition to allowing this, it seems that it would be rather unfair to the teams that can't buy apos.
graeme27uk wrote: 4) Special "star player" wizards, assistant coaches, etc

So for example maybe Grumbold the Magnificent has a special spell but like star players can only be bought with inducement funds. Maybe you hire "Svengore-Van-Erikson" who gives your team a bonus of some kind (don't know what yet).
Again, while not totally opposed to the idea, I think that I'd want to see some specifics before trying to determine if it was a good idea or bad. Depends on the combination of costs and effects, obviously. :)

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Re: A few ideas that I have come to my brain...

Post by neverworking »

The cyanide version of the game has an option for "recharging" wizards (some cryptic formula based on time, tds and pitch violence). They are super game changing. I couldn't say there couldn't be a point where a 2nd one might be ok, but having a 2nd one is exponentially stronger and I would not approach it.

Again cyanide attempted some race specific "scrolls" as an option. While some were a bit creative, in practice the only ones that were really worth a crap were basically the ones that were either fireball or lightning bolt. Lots of room to make it overpowered, or deprive a team of a useful one if what you give them isn't strong enough.

Being able to buy a 2nd apoth for 50k would probably go that much farther into preserving the high av teams that have large treasure chests of gold.

Star wizard is probably the one that I'd think has the most promise to be reasonable and balanced so long as it is in lieu of the normal wizard. Possibly limited to certain teams. I'm not sure what it would do differently though, but someone could probably try out a couple of creative ideas (forked lightning, hits 2 adjacent players on a 3+, kind of in between the 2 normal spells)

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graeme27uk
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Re: A few ideas that I have come to my brain...

Post by graeme27uk »

Reflecting for a few minutes...

How about if "Lightning Bolt" and "Fireball" were sanctioned spells and so used as normal. However, a wizard could use a race-specific spell (not all 24 necessarily) but it would be an illegal spell and as such subject to some kind of penalty roll. If the roll is failed then the spell is dispelled by the M.A.G.E (Magic Advisory Games Executive) and so doesn't work.

You could have spells like:

Various direct attacks (AoE's, single target, etc).
Teleport which moves a player ignoring tackle-zones a certain number of squares.
Various ability boosters that last for that turn only.
Spells that give a turns worth of a skill.
Spell that makes a BG ignore his negative trait.
Spells that nerf an opposing player for their next turn.

So there is lots of scope for spells.

With the special wizards, you can only induce them for a game like normal. But maybe they are sanctioned to be able to use different spells other than FB and LB. Bring on Zap! again!!

With more apothecaries, you could just also allow teams that don't have them to have more of the equivalent. So Undead could potentially have more than one Necromancer and be able to use "Raise the Dead" more than once per game. Nurgle... well maybe they can either be allowed to re-roll one Regeneration per (whatever the Nurge equivalent is).

I guess the issue about balance is kind of funny with BB. The game is inherently unbalanced though I am guessing that you don't want sideline figures to be the reason that teams are unbalanced as they are pretty much immune to being attacked.

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Daht
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Re: A few ideas that I have come to my brain...

Post by Daht »

Some old rules we used back in the last century (literally)..

http://www.sonic.net/~daht/bb/rules/wizard.html

Some won't work or would need adjustments for current rules, but lots of ideas there.

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PercyTheTroll
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Re: A few ideas that I have come to my brain...

Post by PercyTheTroll »

A second wizard and/or race specific spells would be bad in general (as people have already said) but could be a good stunty team bonus (like the chef or cheap goblin bribes). Say an Ogre team can induce an Ogre Shaman as well as a wizard for example.

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the.tok
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Re: A few ideas that I have come to my brain...

Post by the.tok »

I've always hated the way wizards work in BB. I don't like the "once in a game, I screw your ball-carrier no matter what" thing. Would rather have a "buff/debuff" type.

That plus every team having the same wizard doesn't seem right either. Would be interesting to think about race-specific wizards (or like WHFB, a "college" system), but replacing the standard wizard more than adding up to it. Wouldn't mind if they end up less powerful, but rostered :)

Anyway, what about these:

Nurgle spells:
Pest Wind
For one turn, every pass or catch attempt get an additional -1
Fly cloud
Until end of turn, any block or blitz attempt requires an additional 2+ to be rolled, otherwise it is lost

Undead/necro Spells:
Macabre Dance
Choose a player with regeneration that has already acted this turn. He may declare an additional legal action (i.e not another blitz if one has already been declared)
Hands from the grave
Target player must roll GFI for every square he moves this turn

Chaos Spells
Blood for the blood god
For this turn, every chaos player gets frenzy
Tzeentch pitch change
You may exchange the position of up to 4 of your players. If a player is prone, then the player that takes his position must be placed prone also.

High Elf Spells
Finrein pillar
target player gets above the melee and out of reach to pass the ball. He gains NoS, cannot be intercepted and the range of his pass is decreased by one
Sanctuary
Every HE player gets AV9 and fend until end of turn

Dwarf runes
Rune of force
Target player gets +1F until end of drive. Must be used on any kick-off
Rune of Agility
Target player gets +1Ag until end of drive. Must be used on any kick-off

Skaven Spells
Curse of the horned rat
Target player statline becomes 7337 until end of drive. He may keep earned skills, but not ones he had from the start
Pest
Target player is infected by pest. For the remainder of the drive, he must roll 2+ on the start of each action or he is placed prone (stunned?) and cannot act this turn.

What do you think?

For sure their will be balance issues, but could be fun and add flavourr to the magic system :)

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Re: A few ideas that I have come to my brain...

Post by garion »

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=35272

Check the document I have posted on that thread. In the wizards optional rules it contains all the old spells from 2nd edition that teams used to be able to use except I have been updated for use with the new rules. No they arent well balanced but I dont think balance was ever much of a consideration back in 2nd ed ;) But they could be fun for the odd one off game etc..

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Re: A few ideas that I have come to my brain...

Post by Darkson »

No to more Apo's in the game - the Wandering Apo was originally priced at 50K and was swiftly upped in price because it defeated the whole player-turnover idea.

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the.tok
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Re: A few ideas that I have come to my brain...

Post by the.tok »

garion wrote:viewtopic.php?f=16&t=35272

Check the document I have posted on that thread. In the wizards optional rules it contains all the old spells from 2nd edition that teams used to be able to use except I have been updated for use with the new rules. No they arent well balanced but I dont think balance was ever much of a consideration back in 2nd ed ;) But they could be fun for the odd one off game etc..
That's much better than current wizards to me :D
other rule changes seem quite interesting too, brings back the good things about LRB4

Very curious about the mutation system too...

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