Ape Roster

Got a great idea and/or proposal for BloodBowl?

Moderator: TFF Mods

Chris
Legend
Legend
Posts: 2035
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 1:18 pm
Location: London, England

Re: Ape Roster

Post by Chris »

How would you know Ed? :)

Reason: ''
Glowworm

Re: Ape Roster

Post by Glowworm »

Heff wrote:How about no strength access but (almost)universal guard? mainly cos gorillas, chimps and gibbons are social. orangs are not. give them GA to represent that they are agile. The Orangs get sure hands and strong arm but are GAP access. (no guard on orangs, I thought of loner for a second but that would be a bit much).
Like the idea of the ape roster, like the different skills being proposed, if you want "fluff" without inventing new skills (which is always subject to resistance) then why not give the Orangs Animosity?? I know people will scream not on the thrower positional and they're probably right, however it would make RR conservation much more important and guarantee the passing game does not become the default once other pieces have catch.

Reason: ''
User avatar
Heff
Dwarf fetishist
Posts: 2843
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:53 pm
Location: Where the Dwarf Hate is

Re: Ape Roster

Post by Heff »

Chris wrote:How would you know Ed? :)
Just guessing. Congrats on Mauling the delves the other day btw

Reason: ''
Heff...Keeping the Dwarf (and lego) hate alive
If you cannot stall out for an 8 turn drive to score with dwarves then you need to go and play canasta with your dad..if you can find him.
Image
Chris
Legend
Legend
Posts: 2035
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 1:18 pm
Location: London, England

Re: Ape Roster

Post by Chris »

They were feeling fragile and vulnerable. And dwarves always lash out when that happens.

Reason: ''
nick_nameless
Emerging Star
Emerging Star
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:41 pm

Re: Ape Roster

Post by nick_nameless »

Way too many positionals IMO.

That team has a huge leg up on other teams because it can get so many diverse players out of the box. Other teams have to work hard to get much of what this team can buy out of the starting blocks. The starting roster is way too good and too versatile IMO. It has speed, strength, positional skills. Would be a nightmare to play against. Block across the board is 6 SPP away.

Reason: ''
Pitch Invader
Emerging Star
Emerging Star
Posts: 384
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:53 am
Location: California

Re: Ape Roster

Post by Pitch Invader »

nick_nameless wrote:Way too many positionals IMO.

That team has a huge leg up on other teams because it can get so many diverse players out of the box. Other teams have to work hard to get much of what this team can buy out of the starting blocks. The starting roster is way too good and too versatile IMO. It has speed, strength, positional skills. Would be a nightmare to play against. Block across the board is 6 SPP away.
Really? Most teams have 4 positions plus linemen, this one has 5 plus linemen. Orcs, Norse & Necro all have 5 + line as well. Not counting Chaos Pact since 3 of theirs are single big guys. Of the 3 that have the same number of positions, all of them have skills that are more useful: Block or reroll skills or both. I think Orcs, Norse & Necro are all stronger than this team. Do you really think the apes are better than them? I don't see it.

The Apes have to have that many options since that's the miniatures that will be produced. They could be less good, but can't eliminate a position.

Reason: ''
nick_nameless
Emerging Star
Emerging Star
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:41 pm

Re: Ape Roster

Post by nick_nameless »

Pitch Invader wrote:
nick_nameless wrote:Way too many positionals IMO.

That team has a huge leg up on other teams because it can get so many diverse players out of the box. Other teams have to work hard to get much of what this team can buy out of the starting blocks. The starting roster is way too good and too versatile IMO. It has speed, strength, positional skills. Would be a nightmare to play against. Block across the board is 6 SPP away.
Really? Most teams have 4 positions plus linemen, this one has 5 plus linemen. Orcs, Norse & Necro all have 5 + line as well. Not counting Chaos Pact since 3 of theirs are single big guys. Of the 3 that have the same number of positions, all of them have skills that are more useful: Block or reroll skills or both. I think Orcs, Norse & Necro are all stronger than this team. Do you really think the apes are better than them? I don't see it.

The Apes have to have that many options since that's the miniatures that will be produced. They could be less good, but can't eliminate a position.
You have six choices plus linemen. The only other team that gets that many is Chaos Pact, and all of their choices that are not linemen are 0-1.

Maybe 'way too many' is not the right description, but my first reaction to this roster is that it is a power gamer's team. You could field this team without rostering a single lineman. It covers all it's own weaknesses....has strength, has speed, has access to every skill category, can play the passing game as well as any AG3 team with a skill or two, has the positional game already built into it, has the skills that cancels the other team's positional game in Grab and Juggernaut.

The team does everything. It's not just the number of positionals...it's also the versatility of what you are giving the players and the versatility of skill access across the team.

I don't think you should be comparing it to Orcs. I think you should consider how it would play compared to Humans, because this team looks like it can outscore the bash teams and out bash the finesse teams, all the while controlling the pitch with some SF, Fend and DT. It might (and I stress might) struggle out of the chute by lack of Block and Dodges, but it has the strength and armor overall to weather that storm IMO.

This is just one guy's opinion to be sure, and Complete Theory Bowl, I just think it's over the top.

Reason: ''
Pitch Invader
Emerging Star
Emerging Star
Posts: 384
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:53 am
Location: California

Re: Ape Roster

Post by Pitch Invader »

ah, I forgot the gibbons.

well, could roll the gorillas into one profile. they are making 2 gorilla types, but could easily have just one position of 'gorilla'. Pretty sure the gorilla minis were designed to sub in for orc blitzers & black orc blockers, but could have just 1 type for the ape team and chock it up to variety of sculpts (not a bad thing).

Reason: ''
Pitch Invader
Emerging Star
Emerging Star
Posts: 384
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:53 am
Location: California

Re: Ape Roster

Post by Pitch Invader »

Here is a version with some nerfing I'd been think of and rolling gorillas into 1 position.

It does seem that about half the teams out there can field 11 player teams with very minimal (2-3) linemen, it's just the nature of the game, might be interesting to limit 0-2 type players to 0-1 & 0-4 types to 0-2 for all teams.. could be good for leagues or tournaments.

Gorillas would be 0-4, and a lot like black orcs in this case, just with an extra movement and one less armor. it does reduce their cost down to black orc cost though. I did the same shuffle of stats for the silverback. but I gave him thick skull for losing the armor point -and it seems right for that big sagital crest, and upped his cost by 10k.

the orangutan I upped in cost since he's starting with strong arm (a doubles skill)

here is the roster:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Reason: ''
Hitonagashi
Star Player
Star Player
Posts: 664
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:11 pm

Re: Ape Roster

Post by Hitonagashi »

Much better.

I think that team is quite balanced now.

Reason: ''
MattDakka
Super Star
Super Star
Posts: 835
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:36 pm
Location: Italy

Re: Ape Roster

Post by MattDakka »

I don't get one thing: why did you use a monkey silhouette as the ape team badge?
Apes have no tail, monkeys have tail.
You should use an ape silhouette instead.

Reason: ''
Image
Pitch Invader
Emerging Star
Emerging Star
Posts: 384
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:53 am
Location: California

Re: Ape Roster

Post by Pitch Invader »

MattDakka wrote:I don't get one thing: why did you use a monkey silhouette as the ape team badge?
Apes have no tail, monkeys have tail.
You should use an ape silhouette instead.
Hmm.. good point. Don't know why I didn't notice that. I'll fix that. actually, photoshop is up now, I'll fix it now. I snagged the picture from somewhere- reminded me of the armor Tim Chimp-Roth wore in planets of the apes.

The team is more balanced this way, less interesting maybe, but with development it can get to the kind of board control if it wants- more of a blank slate- I'd wanted to have the silverback be a choice between it and rerolls/full other positions, but without the skills on the gorillas their cost must come down and can fit them all in a roster now- but I think that's fine since they don't have any skills to start.

here is a cleaned up roster:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Reason: ''
nick_nameless
Emerging Star
Emerging Star
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:41 pm

Re: Ape Roster

Post by nick_nameless »

It would be worth playtesting both rosters for a bit. Again, just going on my initial reaction, I think that this roster maybe goes tad too far in the nerfing. For instance, the silverback is expensive for what you get compared to other big guys. He probably only needs to be 140K.

Gibbons were 0-4 before? I did not have a problem with that.
@80K, the Gorillas are boring. Why not give them some pizazz and some higher cost. Give them Grab and Juggernaut (the skills you were targeting before) at 110K. Because there are only two players with these skills as opposed to 4 I think it works better. They are essentially your blitzers, which this team is lacking the way you have drawn it. They are slow blitzers, but they are playing a role of making space instead of a true blitzer.

I think that would be more interesting and be the balance between the two. But again, just theorizing :)

Reason: ''
PairODice
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:01 am

Re: Ape Roster

Post by PairODice »

0-2 Gibbons is fine and more fluff appropriate though Shadowing or Leap would seem more appropriate than Diving Tackle.

I like the idea of Grab for the Silverback and the Gorillas; a related price increase would make team design choices more interesting too.

Reason: ''
User avatar
Darkson
Da Spammer
Posts: 24047
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2002 9:04 pm
Location: The frozen ruins of Felstad
Contact:

Re: Ape Roster

Post by Darkson »

Issue I have is the same as the orc one - you can build an 11-man team without any Linechimps.

Reason: ''
Currently an ex-Blood Bowl coach, most likely to be found dying to Armoured Skeletons in the frozen ruins of Felstad, or bleeding into the arena sands of Rome or burning rubber for Mars' entertainment.
Post Reply