Slannesh Roster

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babass
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Re: Slannesh Roster

Post by babass »

Another idea is to make the fiends bull centaur-esque
I do like this idea as well.

Something like this:
5/5/1/8 - 150k - Loner, Animal Sauvage, No Hands, Claw, Prehensive tails, Sure Feet, Sprint S/GAPM

I do think as well, that 4 hypno guy (with AG4), without nega trait, is way too strong! Look how strong are the elves, when eldril is hired... and eldril has loner...


QTY Position Cost MV ST AG AV
0-16 Linemen 60 6 3 4 7 GA SPM
0-2 Deamonettes 100 6 3 4 7 Claws, No Hands, Hypnotic Gaze, Regeneration GA SPM
0-2 Witch Elves 110 7 3 4 7 Frenzy, Dodge, Jump Up GA SPM
0-1 Fiend
Team ReRoll 60k (or 70k?)

So, it would be the 1st Elves/ClawPOMBer roster of the game!
I'm sure it would have lots of success on the BlackBox on fumbbl :lol:
0-2 Daemonettes - 110k - 7/3/3/7 - Claws, No hands*, Foul appearance, Regeneration - GA / SPM
I do like this daemonette as well (but for 100k) :)

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Re: Slannesh Roster

Post by Bakunin »

mushoomy wrote:
We could possibly merge the two like...

0-16 Slaaneesh Cultist - 60k - 6/3/4/7 - GA/SPM

0-4 Deamonette - 100k -6/3/4/7 - claws, hypnotic gaze, regeneration, no hands - GA/SPM

0-2 Witch Elves 110 7 3 4 7 Frenzy, Dodge, Jump Up GA SP

0-1 Fiend of Slaaneesh - 150k- 7/5/1/8 - loner, wild animal, claw, prehensile tail, disturbing presence, no hands - S/GA

Apo yes; Reroll: 60k

merging the rosters would be way to strong. Hypogaze, big guy to pop the ball loose with and witch elfs as ball carriers...

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Re: Slannesh Roster

Post by Bakunin »

@mushoomy

after seeeing your roster thoughts, i would make the roster like this:

0-16 Slaaneesh Cultist - 60k - 6/3/4/7 - GA/SPM

0-4 Deamonette - 110k -6/3/4/7 - claws, hypnotic gaze, regeneration, no hands - GA/SPM

0-1 Fiend of Slaaneesh - 150k- 6/5/1/8 - loner, wild animal, no hands, claw, prehensile tail, disturbing presence, - S/GAP

Apo yes; Reroll: 70K

It would of course need play testing, and would probably be a top tier1 team. The increased price on deamonettes and rerolls tones down the roster a bit.

Or if having ag4 line men is to good, then:


0-16 Slaaneesh Cultist - 40k - 6/3/3/7 - think skull - GA/SPM

0-4 Deamonette - 110k -6/3/4/7 - claws, hypnotic gaze, regeneration, no hands - GA/SPM

0-1 Fiend of Slaaneesh - 150k- 6/5/1/8 - loner, wild animal, no hands, claw, prehensile tail, disturbing presence, - S/GAP

But would take the renegade 'dark elf' coolness away from it.

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Re: Slannesh Roster

Post by Bakunin »

babass wrote:
Something like this:
5/5/1/8 - 150k - Loner, Animal Sauvage, No Hands, Claw, Prehensive tails, Sure Feet, Sprint S/GAPM
mv 5 is to slow for a fiend, but you could maybe go crazy and give them A access instead of S access (that would make it harder to get clawpomb)
I do think as well, that 4 hypno guy (with AG4), without nega trait, is way too strong! Look how strong are the elves, when eldril is hired... and eldril has loner...
they have no hands, but you are probably right - maybe 2 daemonettes is enough. But should it then be?:

"0-16 Slaaneesh Cultist
0-2 Deamonette
0-1 Fiend of Slaaneesh"

0-2 Daemonettes - 110k - 7/3/3/7 - Claws, No hands*, Foul appearance, Regeneration - GA / SPM
I do like this daemonette as well (but for 100k) :)
If you are going to make a 'Slannesh team', then i think you need to put hypno-gaze somewhere on the roster - otherwise it just becomes to redundant and
generic. It could be nice with a good new team that pushes you to play differently (black-box is a silly min/max league, you get when you play ppl you dont know. I dont think it should get consideration, when designing rules).

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Re: Slannesh Roster

Post by mushoomy »

Bakunin wrote:@mushoomy

after seeeing your roster thoughts, i would make the roster like this:

0-16 Slaaneesh Cultist - 60k - 6/3/4/7 - GA/SPM

0-4 Deamonette - 110k -6/3/4/7 - claws, hypnotic gaze, regeneration, no hands - GA/SPM

0-1 Fiend of Slaaneesh - 150k- 6/5/1/8 - loner, wild animal, no hands, claw, prehensile tail, disturbing presence, - S/GAP

Apo yes; Reroll: 70K

It would of course need play testing, and would probably be a top tier1 team. The increased price on deamonettes and rerolls tones down the roster a bit.

Or if having ag4 line men is to good, then:


0-16 Slaaneesh Cultist - 40k - 6/3/3/7 - think skull - GA/SPM

0-4 Deamonette - 110k -6/3/4/7 - claws, hypnotic gaze, regeneration, no hands - GA/SPM

0-1 Fiend of Slaaneesh - 150k- 6/5/1/8 - loner, wild animal, no hands, claw, prehensile tail, disturbing presence, - S/GAP

But would take the renegade 'dark elf' coolness away from it.
I think the second way may be the way to do it. Fluff wise, cultists are just follwers of Slaanesh so they wouldn't have the same agility as the Deamonettes. The increase of price on the Deamonettes does tone down the team and the Fiend at MA6, although not following the fluff, is still fast for a big guy.

Dunno about thick skull, then again what other skills would you give them? (Foul appearence? Fend?)

I do agree that removing the AG from the cultists remove their Dark elf play to them and the removal of AG does make ball habdling on this team much harder. Maybe give the cultist mutation access and make agility a double? Giving the cultists ball handling skills such as extra arms, and agility-esque skills like two heads and big hand.

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Re: Slannesh Roster

Post by Bakunin »

mushoomy wrote:
I think the second way may be the way to do it. Fluff wise, cultists are just follwers of Slaanesh so they wouldn't have the same agility as the Deamonettes. The increase of price on the Deamonettes does tone down the team and the Fiend at MA6, although not following the fluff, is still fast for a big guy.

Dunno about thick skull, then again what other skills would you give them? (Foul appearence? Fend?)

I do agree that removing the AG from the cultists remove their Dark elf play to them and the removal of AG does make ball habdling on this team much harder. Maybe give the cultist mutation access and make agility a double? Giving the cultists ball handling skills such as extra arms, and agility-esque skills like two heads and big hand.
It would be a shame to lose the dark elf, because fluff says that some of them follow Slannesh.
You could give the ag3 cultists 'shadowing'. (the whole Slannesh mind-f*** thing gives them the ability to follow their enemys round.)

0-16 Slaaneesh Cultist - 50k - 6/3/3/7 - shadowing - GM/SAP


But anyway its theorybowl. Seeing another hypnogaze roster is a hailmary considering how conservativ the community is.

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Re: Slannesh Roster

Post by mushoomy »

Bakunin wrote:
mushoomy wrote:
I think the second way may be the way to do it. Fluff wise, cultists are just follwers of Slaanesh so they wouldn't have the same agility as the Deamonettes. The increase of price on the Deamonettes does tone down the team and the Fiend at MA6, although not following the fluff, is still fast for a big guy.

Dunno about thick skull, then again what other skills would you give them? (Foul appearence? Fend?)

I do agree that removing the AG from the cultists remove their Dark elf play to them and the removal of AG does make ball habdling on this team much harder. Maybe give the cultist mutation access and make agility a double? Giving the cultists ball handling skills such as extra arms, and agility-esque skills like two heads and big hand.
It would be a shame to lose the dark elf, because fluff says that some of them follow Slannesh.
You could give the ag3 cultists 'shadowing'. (the whole Slannesh mind-f*** thing gives them the ability to follow their enemys round.)

0-16 Slaaneesh Cultist - 50k - 6/3/3/7 - shadowing - GM/SAP


But anyway its theorybowl. Seeing another hypnogaze roster is a hailmary considering how conservativ the community is.
Shadowing could work, but I could see agility teams (especially dodgy ones) would struggle. Maybe thick skull is the way to go.

I think another hypnogaze team could work well but like you said it's all theorybowl. If this team was ever going to be considered, it'd definitely need some testing. But I'm happy with thick skull if that's what we're going with

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Re: Slannesh Roster

Post by Bakunin »

Slannesh Roster:

0-16 Slaaneesh Cultist - 40k - 6/3/3/7 - think skull - GAM/SP

0-4 Deamonette - 110k -6/3/4/7 - claws, hypnotic gaze, regeneration, no hands - GA/SPM

0-1 Fiend of Slaaneesh - 150k- 6/5/1/8 - loner, wild animal, no hands, claw, prehensile tail, disturbing presence, - S/GAPM

reroll: 70k, apo yes

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Galak 3:16 says "There is a point in time that a player really should read the rulebook."
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Re: Slannesh Roster

Post by mushoomy »

Gonna do some testing with this team tomorrow/today (fumbbl testmode). I'll edit this post with my findings and thoughts about the roster and see if the roster needs tweaking

I think the main things I'll be looking at are the deamonettes (especially how hypno-gaze affects the team), how reliable the fiend is and the thick skull on the Cultists.

Findings:
Rookie VS High Elves (Agility teams)-
This team is great on offense as well as defense against agility teams like high elves. On offence, you cage with the cultists then hypno-gaze their screen so the cage can move past it. If they hit a corner of the cage, the deamonettes blitz them out. One thing I found was that armor seven is fairly squishy, but I think that balances the team out perfectly. Agility 3 didn't matter much. There weren't many times I had to dodge/pick up the ball on Offense. The Deamonettes also didn't get many CAS, despite claw reducing their armor 8 to 7 (think I got 1 CAS with a deamonette throughout the game). For defense, they're great against the passing game due to hypnotic gaze (as when you're gazed you can't catch the ball). After the passing elf game failed, we started over and I got my friend to do a loose cage running game along the side line. This tactic works well against Slannesh he found as it was harder for me to get to the ball carrier (multiple gazes, mostly failed gazes). Another thing I found with the Slannesh roster is the lack of block or dodge (which definitely balances this team). Overall, against Agility teams, the Slannesh roster relies on hypnotic gaze on both offense and defense. Although it doesn't always work, the team definitely focus's on this tactic against agility teams (high elves is what we tested).

Rookie VS Dwarves (Bashy teams)-
This team has a similar offense strategy against Dwarves. Hypnotic gazing through screens and moving the cage down field like that. However, I found that this team struggles against dwarves mainly due to their high armor and universal block. When attacking my cage, he'd move another blocker in which slowed down my offense quite a bit (including the 2 layered dwarf screen). The armor 7 of the Slannesh roster also didn't do too many favors. The thick skull on the cultists definitely helped the team stay on the pitch longer, but by half time the Slannesh team was reduced to 8 players (4 Deamonettes 4 Cultists). Against the dwarves long and painful offense, he mainly targeted the Cultists when blitzing. Once all the Cultists were of the field, he scored on turn 6. None of my cultists came back from the KO bin ( :( ), So that was it for the Slannesh scoring game. I surrounded the ball with my Deamonettes to make sure his runners couldn't get the ball and drew 1-1. This game we felt that the Slannesh's AV 7 was a good idea. If it was any higher, I think this team would've been quite the force to be reckoned with. My friend found targeting the Cultists a good strategy as it limited my ball handlers for my offensive drives. Hypnotic gaze is still a strong point to this team and claw helped a bit to get CAS with the Deamonettes this time (got 3 CAS with my Deamonettes).

Skilled Slannesh team-
With the skilled Slannesh team, I assumed the team had 50 games atleast getting 2 skills each on the Deamonettes and getting a few skills with the Cultists (aswell as getting a fiend who skilled once).

2x Deamonettes with block and dodge
1x Deamonette with block and tackle
1x Deamonette with block, mighty blow
2x Cultists with sure hands and block
2x Cultists with wrestle and strip ball
1x Cultist with big hand
2x Cultist with wrestle
1x Fiend with break tackle
3x Cultist with nothing

4RR with apo
TV 1740k

Mainly with this testing I wanted to see how different skill combos with different players would work. Eg. First thing I thought was wrestle and stripball for breaking cages. Then big hand to scoop the ball up afterwards. Other skills in there worth noting is the break tackle on the fiend (I think that's what the first skill should be on it) and tackle as a second skill on the Deamonette (I imagine this is how a killer would start to develop without mighty blow).


Skilled VS Skilled High Elves 1760k-
We decided to do skilled High elves again due to the fact that they are great at the elf game when developed. Anyways, with this game hypno gaze decided not to work too well freeing up the developed catchers on the receiving end. However, I feel even failing a hypno gaze isn't too bad on defense when marking catchers as you are still applying tz's on them (unless they have NoS of course). The slannesh game remained the same as before, hypno-gazing the screens and blitzing where needed (elves in the cage and breaking through screens when hypno gaze fails). The tackle Deamonette was a savior in this game as many of the elves has dodge/block/both and getting those elves down was handy for this team. Second half I tried scoring quickly and seeing how that works for the slannesh (mainly consisting of finding a 1 wide part in the screen, hypnogazing and running the cage down that way). This gave the elves to try the caging game, which gave me the chance to try out the wrestle/stripball Cultists... and boy they did work :) getting the ball of the elves on numerous occasions. The big hand on the cultists helped as well this game. The ball after strip ball bounced into 2 tackle zones, and the big hand cultist scooped it up, dodged away and handed it of to another cultist. Hooray!
I think now that cultists should get mutations on a double. They already have a wide range of skills to choose from the general and agility access and the mutation seems a bit OP to me. Then again, I only had one mutated Cultist. In the end, a semi developed Slannesh team doesn't do too differently to a non-developed Slannesh team. It's just dealing with the opposing coaches skills is a bit difficult (which is why the tackle helped).

Skilled VS Skilled Chaos 1860k-
Oh boy POMB hurts :O That's all I have to say. What a fragile team the Slannesh roster is xD He got to recieve and boy did he bash me up! He wanted to try something different for the sake of testing this team so he wanted to see what would happen if he took the Deamonettes out (aswell as cultists of course). And oh boy did it hurt my team (thank god for regen though. Great call for the Deamonettes). I learnt a lot about the Slannesh roster through this game, and it gave me the impression of lizardmen. With lizardmen, if the skinks are off the field, the saurus's can't score (or they're highly unlikely). Without the Saurus's, the skinks lose the much needed bulk on the team. This is how I feel with this roster. Without the cultists you're screwed. Without the Deamonettes, you're just a bunch of linemen. Anyways, once again, cage breaking was a breeze. Wrestle and stripball alongside the Deamonettes Hypnogaze is great. However, once the Deamonettes were off the pitch the struggle began aswell as the bloodbath! Armor 7 hurts like a truck. On offense, it was hard also. Aswell as the screen I had to worry about, I had to worry about the opposing team smashing my players to bits! Poor Slannesh had his/her/it's head down in shame. The beauty of life was not expressed in this game. 2-0 to the Chaos. Don't even ask about casualties.

Overall thoughts:
First of all, hypnotic gaze is fun. Whether it's on offense or defense, it really made my friend differently. It's almost like playing against Slann for the first time. You are forced to play differently. Second thing is that no hands is definitely the right call on the Deamonettes. They are already monsters out of the box imagine how they'd be fully developed! Thick skull is a great call also as it really helps the team stay on the pitch. However, staying on the pitch is really bloody difficult with this team :lol: especially against bash teams. Maybe removing thick skull for armor 8? I also feel that this team works great against agility teams, especially those who play the passing game (once again, thank you hypnotic gaze). Agility 3 was a great call btw. This team would've been over powered if they were AG4. Overall, I feel this team is a good team, but not a great team at all. The universal armor 7 (besides the fiend) hurts like a truck, and the lack of block/dodge out of the box hurts more. No hands on the Deamonettes makes development in leagues a lot harder, but their claw helps rack up spp. However, when I played with this team, I used the Deamonettes to support the Cultists with the hypnotic gaze and not killing machines. Hypnotic gaze is a charm on this team. With out it I feel it's just another standard team that wouldn't get a lot of play. The fiend is also a nice addition to the team. I mainly used him to tie up players with its prehensile tail, but I'm sure it'd be great at killing with its claw also.

Changes:
First of all we've all made a mistake :oops: it's spelt Slaanesh, not Slannesh :oops:
Second of all it's Daemonette not Deamonette :oops:
Yeah. Good job us :lol:


Cultists:
I feel like an increase on 10k of these guys would be good. Besides that I feel that they are great as they are. Thick skull is a great skill to have on these players and I don't think that they'd do good without it. Removing mutation access on a normal role is a must in my opinion. A team with wrestle-Strip ball players, hypnotic gaze players and big hand players is over powered. I think the agility access on them is good though, it gives the team more finesse.

Final Cultist:
0-16 Slaanesh Cultist - 50k - 6/3/3/7 - thick skull - GA/SPM

Daemonettes:
Great support players in my opinion! I see people turning them into killers, but I like them hypnotic gazing 24/7. Regeneration is a must on these players. They are just too fragile other wise. One change we need to make is removing pass skill access on a double as it just doesn't make sense to me. If they don't have hands, they wouldn't be passing the ball would they :lol: However, I made a mistake while testing having them at MA7 :oops: they were great being fast in my opinion but yeah. Silly me.

Final Daemonette:
0-4 Daemonette - 110k - 6/3/4/7 - claw, hypnotic gaze, no hands, regeneration - GA/SM

Final Fiend of Slaanesh:
This big guy is an interesting one. Definitely great at supporting the team. Disturbing presence is great against agility teams and claw helps him rack up spp. Prehensile tail is awesome at marking players. Whether it's on the cage or on catchers. One thing is for certain though. Wild animal. I think this is the only hold back of this player becoming an awesome defensive big guy as wild animal activates on a 4+ when not blitzing. And wasting a blitz with this big guy rather than blitzing the ball carrier with your wrestle strip ball player isn't worth it to me. I guess this big guy is going to be developed into a great killer. But man the defensive-support opportunities with this guy. So sad wild animal. So sad. Again, removing the pass skill access is the only change needed to this player.

Final Fiend of Slaanesh:
0-1 Fiend of Slaanesh - 150k - 6/5/1/8 - loner, wild animal, claw, no hands, prehensile tail, disturbing presence - S/GAM

Final team:

Slaanesh team roster:

0-16 Slaanesh Cultist - 50k - 6/3/3/7 - thick skull - GA/SPM
0-4 Daemonette - 110k - 6/3/4/7 - claw, hypnotic gaze, no hands, regeneration - GA/SM
0-1 Fiend of Slaanesh - 150k - 6/5/1/8 - loner, wild animal, claw, no hands, prehensile tail, disturbing presence - S/GAM

Rerolls 70k, Apothecary yes

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Re: Slannesh Roster

Post by babass »

So you are playtesting the latest version from Bakunin ?
the one with the cultist with thickskull, 0_4 deamonnette and the bigguy?

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Re: Slannesh Roster

Post by mushoomy »

babass wrote:So you are playtesting the latest version from Bakunin ?
the one with the cultist with thickskull, 0_4 deamonnette and the bigguy?
Yeah, thought this was the peak of the slannesh team concepts that we put together. Who knows, it may change after the developed testing. I like how this team plays though. It feels like vampires, but the thralls are the stars.

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Re: Slannesh Roster

Post by Bakunin »

mushoomy wrote:
babass wrote:So you are playtesting the latest version from Bakunin ?
the one with the cultist with thickskull, 0_4 deamonnette and the bigguy?
Yeah, thought this was the peak of the slannesh team concepts that we put together. Who knows, it may change after the developed testing. I like how this team plays though. It feels like vampires, but the thralls are the stars.
Really awesome that you are playtesting it.

I think you are right about the mutation access. Cultists with wrestle+strip ball+horns and one with Big Hand+Sure hands + hypno gaze is to strong.
Lets go back to M access on double.

But cool, that your friend bashed your cultists of the pitch and that it worked.. If you have no Cultists, you cant win.

It may be good to see them against a developed-bashy Necro team or Norse. They have the MV to score quick, if they win the attrition game.

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Galak 3:16 says "There is a point in time that a player really should read the rulebook."
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Re: Slannesh Roster

Post by babass »

I don't get why you are giving thick skull for free to the linemen?
(It's not like the vampire, where the linemen do suffer from the bloodlust.)
And why A access on simple?

It should be either:
0-16 Slaaneesh Cultist - 40k - 6/3/3/7 - - GM/SPA
(standard hobgobelin, but with M access on simple)
either
0-16 Slaaneesh Cultist - 50k - 6/3/3/7 - Thick Skull - GAM/SP

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Re: Slannesh Roster

Post by Bakunin »

babass wrote:I don't get why you are giving thick skull for free to the linemen?
(It's not like the vampire, where the linemen do suffer from the bloodlust.)
And why A access on simple?

It should be either:
0-16 Slaaneesh Cultist - 40k - 6/3/3/7 - - GM/SPA
(standard hobgobelin, but with M access on simple)
either
0-16 Slaaneesh Cultist - 50k - 6/3/3/7 - Thick Skull - GAM/SP
Thick Skull is not free, they get it for 10k.
If you use Galaks system for creating teams the math is:

Human linemen: 6338 50k -av = 40k (if no other skill or stat increase). So the thrall and hobgolin is overpriced.
otherwise:
Human Linemen 6338 -av = 6337 30k + 10kthick skull = 6337 thick skull 40k

They have thick skull, because they are used to taking a beating.

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Galak 3:16 says "There is a point in time that a player really should read the rulebook."
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Re: Slannesh Roster

Post by babass »

1) BASIC PLAYER
This player type starts as:
6/3/3/8 No Skills -- 50,000 gold
This type is allowed for 0-16 slots or 0-6, 0-4, 0-2 slots
No player of this type should be priced for less than 30k
Skills disallowed to this player type:
Right Stuff, Stunty, Titchy, Always Hungry, Throw Team-Mate, Loner, Bone-head, Wild Animal, Really Stupid, Take Root
All skills add 20k to the player's price other than the following:
30k: Regeneration
20k: Having Block and Dodge on the same player (this is on top of the 40k the player paid for Block and Dodge already)
10k: Horns, Pass, and Thick Skull
5k: Leap and Very Long Legs
-5k: Decay
The following stat changes are allowed to this player type:
MA 4: -20k
MA 5: -10k
MA 7: +20k
MA 8: +30k
ST 2: -30k
AG 2: -20k
AV 7: -10k (if the player has NO other skills or stat increases)
AV 7: -20k
AV 9: +10k
Hobgob are following this rule (in orange) :)

But you are right, if the only skill added is thickskull, there is a contradiction for the cost :)

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