Nippon Team

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Eruletho
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Nippon Team

Post by Eruletho »

I was browsing the online blood bowl league sites and stumbled upon a roster I really liked. It makes use of the Divine Wind miniatures from Impact!, which is always a plus (having unique mini's already produced for it) and looks fairly balanved to me. Before I open up the roster to a league envrionment, what do you guys think?

Nipponeese Team
0-12 Ashigaru Defenders (or Linemen) 6338 G/ASP 50k
0-4 Samurai (Blitzers) 6339 Block GS/AP 80k
0-2 Ninja (Runners) 7347 Dodge, Leap A/GSP 100k
0-2 Sumo (Blockers) 4428 Stand Firm S/GAP 100k
0-1 Temple Statue 351(10) Loner, Stand Firm, Mighty Blow, Thick Skull, Bone Head S/GAP 120k

alternatively,
0-1 Oni 4529 Loner, Wild Animal, Claws, Thick Skull S/GAP 110k

The normal roster is the one I found, and I had seen a discussion earlier on a nippon team somewhere (may even have been here) that included the Oni instead

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Current Roster
0-12 Ashigaru Defenders (or Linemen) 5338 G/ASP 50k
0-4 Samurai (Blitzers) 5339 Side Step, Fend GS/AP 80k
0-2 Ninja (Runners) 7337 Side Step, Jump Up, Leap, Stab GA/PS 110k
0-2 Sumo (Blockers) 4427 Stand Firm, Fend, Thick Skull GS/AP 120k
0-1 Oni 4529 Loner, Wild Animal, Claws, Horns, Thick Skull S/GAP 160k

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Hitonagashi
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Re: Nippon Team

Post by Hitonagashi »

Horribly overpowered.

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Shteve0
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Nippon Team

Post by Shteve0 »

Agree. Linemen cheap and functional. All good so far. But then you have both ST4 and AG4 players on the roster, combined with the Orc Blitzer, one of the best value players in the game. Then you want claw?

This roster is far too powerful and, I'm sorry to say, is also pretty incoherent in design... nothing about it says "nippon" to me.

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Re: Nippon Team

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Re: Nippon Team

Post by Chris »

If you are going to design a team think what it is going to be good at and bad at. Currently the team has people good at everything...
Looking at your models you have a lineman type and 3 positions.
Also look at the chaos warrior for an idea how to do things. People converting from fantasy to blood bowl would give him all sorts of skills. Yet here he is a high strength and armour player only. Everything else comes through development. So also have an idea of what an undeveloped and developed player would look like in each position.

(And why the ninja wouldn't have stab in any team list is beyond me :) )

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Re: Nippon Team

Post by garion »

that one is canny over powered too.

Also in the OP Temple statues are from Cathay in the GW universe.

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Re: Nippon Team

Post by Eruletho »

So if I were to make as few changes as possible to the above roster to make it acceptable, what would you guys reccomend? How about:

0-12 Ashigaru Defenders (or Linemen) 6338 G/ASP 50k
0-4 Samurai (Blitzers) 6339 Block GS/AP 80k
0-2 Ninja (Runners) 7337 Dodge, Leap, Stab A/GSP 100k
0-2 Sumo (Blockers) 4428 Stand Firm S/GAP 110k
0-1 Temple Statue 351(10) Loner, Stand Firm, Mighty Blow, Thick Skull, Bone Head S/GAP 120k

Like I said, I found it online, it isn't a creation of mine

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Re: Nippon Team

Post by Hitonagashi »

Eruletho wrote:So if I were to make as few changes as possible to the above roster to make it acceptable, what would you guys reccomend? How about:

0-12 Ashigaru Defenders (or Linemen) 6338 G/ASP 50k
0-4 Samurai (Blitzers) 6339 Block GS/AP 80k
0-2 Ninja (Runners) 7337 Dodge, Leap, Stab A/GSP 100k
0-2 Sumo (Blockers) 4428 Stand Firm S/GAP 110k
0-1 Temple Statue 351(10) Loner, Stand Firm, Mighty Blow, Thick Skull, Bone Head S/GAP 120k

Like I said, I found it online, it isn't a creation of mine
We don't mean to offend you...but you are the one that submitted it :). There's a lot of "fanmade" teams posted to these forums, and almost all of them massively overpower their team.

The reason why this team feels wrong is that it combines the strongest points of multiple rosters:
* Cheap mobile linemen from Humans
* Mobile durable blitzers from Orcs
* Leaping blitzing player from Slann (as the only leap shtick team)
* Flesh Golem lite players from Necromantic
* Slow durable big guy from Undead.

Now, a few of your players are overpriced (I'd never take that ninja without G access), but the team just feels like a mash of several other key players into one combined team.

The first question you need to answer is "What playstyle would you like your Nippon team to have?"

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Re: Nippon Team

Post by Eruletho »

I think the idea behind the team that I found was to make use of the models from Impact! and make them as rediculous as possible. That said, I love the models and liked the original idea for the team, but want to make it both balanced and unique for play (similar to the Apes team, possibly even eventually joining it in some tabletop leagues).

With that in mind, an idea for the team would be to take a firm stand on the LOS and utilize your pair of mobile players to get the ball. In this manner they can represent the feudal era style of fighting, where the soldiers were primarily armored soldiers that formed up in massive bricks of units that proceeded to smash against one another until one gave way. The sumo are the ultimate expression of that, being big, slow bashers intent on pushing the opponent back. The ninja give the team it's only real ball carrying threat, as the rest of the team is slow to advance, yet aren't as hardy as other slow teams. Since there are only two and they have A access, they fall into more of a runner role, though they are also the team's only P access, for leader or passing options (as the Samurai could also become ball handlers, starting with block and holding G access for catch and sure hands)

0-12 Ashigaru Defenders (or Linemen) 5338 G/ASP 50k
0-4 Samurai (Blitzers) 5339 Block GS/AP 80k
0-2 Ninja (Runners) 7337 Dodge, Leap, Stab GAP/S 100k
0-2 Sumo (Blockers) 4428 Stand Firm S/GAP 110k
0-1 Temple Statue 351(10) Loner, Stand Firm, Mighty Blow, Thick Skull, Bone Head S/GAP 120k

Now you have 3 players on the LOS (the statue and 2 sumo) that are hard to push out of the way. All your positionals save the ninja are slower than average, but not quite as slow as dwarves (which is good since they are also not nearly as hardy as dwarves).
Thoughts on possible other developments: Making sumos 0-4 with GS/AP and removing the temple guard would make the team a bit more reliable, and only use Impact! minis, but would make a starting line-up look like a slightly developed Chaos team with no ClawPOMB)

I love all of Impact! minis, and the ones that don't work so great for classic BloodBowl team's I'd eventually love to stat out. Since I'm particularily fond of japanese culture, and because I already had stats located for them, I figured I'd start with the divine wind, though in the long run the desert dogs, siringit, and pharohs teams would be awesome to design as well.

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Re: Nippon Team

Post by Darkson »

garion wrote:
that one is canny over powered too.
Not in the MBBL2 they weren't (a modified house-ruled LRB 1-4 league with lots of extra skills and 80+ rosters). :wink:
I quite enjoyed the Zombie Ninja I got.

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Re: Nippon Team

Post by Smurf »

Nipponeese Team
0-12 Ashigaru Defenders (or Linemen) 6337 G/ASP 40k
0-4 Samurai (Blitzers) 6339 Block GS/AP 80k animosity
0-2 Ninja (Runners) 7347 Dodge, Leap A/GSP 100k animosity
0-2 Sumo (Blockers) 4427 Stand Firm S/GAP 110k animosity
0-1 Temple Statue 351(10) Loner, Stand Firm, Mighty Blow, Thick Skull, Bone Head S/GAP 130k

A bit more fluffy?

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Eruletho
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Re: Nippon Team

Post by Eruletho »

0-12 Ashigaru Defenders (or Linemen) 5338 G/ASP 40k
0-4 Samurai (Blitzers) 5339 Block GS/AP 80k
0-2 Ninja (Runners) 7337 Dodge, Leap, Stab GAP/S 100k
0-2 Sumo (Blockers) 4427 Stand Firm, Fend S/GAP 100k
0-1 Temple Statue 351(10) Loner, Stand Firm, Mighty Blow, Thick Skull, Bone Head S/GAP 110k

I could see animosity on the Ninja, but not really on the other players, as Samurai tended to lead Ashigaru, and the Sumo isn't going to be doing any ball handling anyway. Just remember that Ninja are also the team's default throwers and the only ones with passing access, so I think we can re-visit it later and leave it off for now. Ashigaru (the real soldiers) are fairly well armored, so having below-average armor wouldn't be fitting. I like the idea of dropping the Sumo's armor to 7, but would want to give him something else to balance it out (as he already doesn't have general access on normal rolls). Maybe Fend? Wrestle would likely be too much, NTM too close to giving Block to a ST4 guy. Giving him fend lets you choose to stay in contact with Stand Firm or to let yourself be pushed back and out of contact with Fend, making the guy a bit more versatile of a blocker but with little to no skill synergy at the start (since both skills can't be used on the same block)

I also checked the current iteration of the player's stats and skills against the older Jervis cost formula, and got the costs that are displayed above. The Ashigaru were 4 points, the Samurai were 8, Ninja and Sumo were both 10, and the statue was 12.

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Re: Nippon Team

Post by Hitonagashi »

If you drop the sumo armour to 7, add Thick Skull too. It's fitting, and AV7 + Thick Skull is almost as good as AV 8 without it. Also, give him G access on normals.

Why did you add P to the ninja? It doesn't need it, and I don't think it fits the player type. Not every roster needs a thrower. This team doesn't seem like a throwing team...it's resembling Necro more (that's not a bad thing!), and neither Necro or Undead have a thrower. It's not that it's overpowered...it just doesn't fit.

I'm not entirely comfortable about 40k for the linos. I can certainly see *why* they are costed like that, but I think it would make them the best 40k player around. Nevertheless, that could be the team raison de etre.

Finally, I think your statue is under-priced. It is slow, but it's extremely durable and with Stand Firm out of the box, it's a great rookie player. Maybe 120-130k? I half like the idea of dropping it to MV 2 as another option (seems to me that if you knock a big statue over, it would struggle to get back on its feet!)

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Re: Nippon Team

Post by garion »

Darkson wrote:
garion wrote:
that one is canny over powered too.
Not in the MBBL2 they weren't (a modified house-ruled LRB 1-4 league with lots of extra skills and 80+ rosters). :wink:
I quite enjoyed the Zombie Ninja I got.

hehe :D

yeah true, a lot of the teams there were canny powerful :)

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Re: Nippon Team

Post by garion »

Smurf wrote:Nipponeese Team
0-12 Ashigaru Defenders (or Linemen) 6337 G/ASP 40k
0-4 Samurai (Blitzers) 6339 Block GS/AP 80k animosity
0-2 Ninja (Runners) 7347 Dodge, Leap A/GSP 100k animosity
0-2 Sumo (Blockers) 4427 Stand Firm S/GAP 110k animosity
0-1 Temple Statue 351(10) Loner, Stand Firm, Mighty Blow, Thick Skull, Bone Head S/GAP 130k

A bit more fluffy?
not really no.

Why the animosity... that doesnt make sense to me really. Also if you want a big guy from Nippon it has to be Oni. Temple Statues are from Cathay.

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