Alternate Human Roster...

[Darkson]

ST increase or AV increase, but not both.

[dode74]

ST increase or AV increase, but not both.

I'd be happy enough given the loss of both the MA and Dodge. Gives them somewhere to go in terms of development while improving survival rates so they actually get to develop. All a matter of opinion really, though.

[Glorian Underhill]

8337 would bring the humans into T1 which is where they should be fluff wise be.
More if they start with Dodge. But even with only Catch like in the High Elf Team they would be great.

Just think of a Human Team with two dependable Werewolfs. They could react then to almost any breaktrough with the MA8 and make a Blitz with ST3.


We used 7337 Catch, Dodge 80k - Catchers in our League.

And for me they were a blast.
The Blitzers went into Guard, MB, Tackle as they always do, and the Catchers went into Block, Side Step Ball runners and Hand-off Players. And if necessary they were able to block back and hold the Line. A St3 Line was very capable of holding back the green Tide. For me they were better ghouls.

So I would support any idea to improve the Catcher. 8238 the easiest way to begin with.

[Chris]

I do think though you can't upset peoples painted teams by changing the number of the positional. I had enough of that back in the day with Undead...

Hence the two team approach (fitting as I noted with greater human detail with the appearance of a Bret team).

[Darkson]

ST increase or AV increase, but not both.

I'd be happy enough given the loss of both the MA and Dodge. Gives them somewhere to go in terms of development while improving survival rates so they actually get to develop. All a matter of opinion really, though.

Also makes them boring - human team(s) are full of ST3/AG3 players. I don't actually like the ST increase idea at all, but can understand it, but giving them both just makes them a Blitzer-lite.

[dode74]

Also makes them boring - human team(s) are full of ST3/AG3 players.

Well yeah. They're human: average by definition.

giving them both just makes them a Blitzer-lite.

Maybe, but without S access and with limited players with A access they will normally develop, and therefore be used, very differently.

[Fassbinder75]

It's a wonder the High Elf roster has any toes left, given the number times they've been stood on. There isn't really much room to move with the Human Catcher without offending another roster. I like the the 8337 Catcher, but I think it would need to be done as part of a roster review in general and not simply a spot change.

[MKL]

8337 would bring the humans into T1 which is where they should be fluff wise

Amen!

We used 7337 Catch, Dodge 80k - Catchers in our League.

And for me they were a blast.

Amen, brother!

[Oly1987]

Im a big fan of the 7/3/3/7 catcher as he makes so much more sense being the same statline as a ghoul/runner. If anything 8/2/3/7 is out of place for your run of the mill human guy. I'd like to see the current catcher moved onto the Amazon team and this catcher in some form (what starting skills is still a sticking point, and whether or not it 0-2 or 0-4). 0-4 would be pretty boss so I think 0-2 would be better.

[Chris]

I see nothing wrong with less armour but faster than a blitzer...

[dode74]

So give him sprint. As fast as a wardancer as standard seems too much to me. Horses for courses.

[Chris]

Problem with skills approach over stats is it fixes short term tourney/league problems, but not long term ones. In a two team approach you could do it as you make average stats work over both time frames. Saying that things like sprint look to me like things a player should learn not start with.

[dode74]

I'd agree, in general, but he's getting ST and AV while losing MA. It'll change the nature of the player, sure, but since one of the main complaints about humans is fluff-based I have to ask if it really does seem fluffy that your average human catcher is as fast as your average wardancer or werewolf, and faster than a DE runner.

[macabeo]

Im a big fan of the 7/3/3/7 catcher as he makes so much more sense being the same statline as a ghoul/runner. If anything 8/2/3/7 is out of place for your run of the mill human guy. I'd like to see the current catcher moved onto the Amazon team and this catcher in some form (what starting skills is still a sticking point, and whether or not it 0-2 or 0-4). 0-4 would be pretty boss so I think 0-2 would be better.

Exactly! This is what I'd do:

Human catcher: 7337 Sure Feet, Catch GA 70k
Amazon catcher: 8237 Dodge, Catch, Dauntless GA 70k

The human catcher is faster than the blitzer thanks to Sure Feet, and his stats and skills consistent with the human team. Also, trading Dodge for ST3 (the nerf of turning MA8 into MA7+Sure Feet is relatively small) helps long term, which is where humans have the most problems.

The Amazon catcher gets Dauntless for free, still fragile but with potential to become an interesting sacker. Dauntless also makes sense if you see the Amazon catcher as a female version of the Norse runner. Of course, the rest of the Amazon team should be reworked, they don't need low-TV buffs as they are right now.

[Chris]

I'd agree, in general, but he's getting ST and AV while losing MA. It'll change the nature of the player, sure, but since one of the main complaints about humans is fluff-based I have to ask if it really does seem fluffy that your average human catcher is as fast as your average wardancer or werewolf, and faster than a DE runner.

Yes it does? The fluffy thing is a bit odd because you can equally say why is a human lineman the same move as an elf? I have no problem with a human selected for that position being faster than a more heavily armoured blitzer.

And part of the human team problems is the high tv game - they just don't advance as well as the top tier 1 teams.