Alternate Human Roster...

[Hucker73]

... partly inspired by the CRP+ (currently being discussed here viewtopic.php?f=24&t=39721)

So here's what I'm thinking:

Linemen, Blitzer, Thrower and Ogre remain unchanged. (Note, CRP+ suggests reduction in Ogre price to 130K but here it stays at 140K due to increased usefulness.)

Catcher has AV upped to 8 for no additional cost, but is reduced from Number:0-4 to 0-2.

Additional positional of: Halfling, 0-2 40,000gps, MA5, ST2, AG3, AV7, Dodge, Stunty, Right Stuff. (A skills only, GSP on doubles)

Increased AV because
1) Makes increasing AV of catcher fix pointless if replaced by AV6 stunty, as that makes the team weaker overall.
2) Human team defined by having better armour than the rest (comparing Human linemen with Norse/'Zons/Thralls) so it's a change that makes sense to me.

Why replace 2 catchers for 2 Halflings?
1) To me, it's fluffy; 'flings live alongside humans and a closer connection of the two races better explains why Puggy is one of the available stars.
2) Gives another offense tactic by allowing Ogre to use throw team mate skill every game, rather than only when Puggy plays.
3) Doesn't change average ST, AG and number of catcher/runner positionals overall across team.
4) Makes the team slightly more fun and unpredictable, which is what Blood Bowl is all about, for me.

It does make the team slower, but I believe this is countered by the increased ability to dodge through the opposition with better chances of success combined with the potential speed increase from being thrown downfield by the ogre (when it comes off).

Just an idea. No playtesting done at all.
All thoughts / opinions / epic 2000 word rants welcome!

[spubbbba]

I like this change to the catcher the best. They are still pretty mediocre but giving them ST3 or AG4 makes them too similar to other catcher types. Of course they are still lumbered with low ST and average AG so are an easy target and often unreliable at their main jobs (catching and dodging) even with the re-roll.

So maybe some other tweaks such as knocking 10K off the cost of blitzers and/or ogres.

Catchers going down to 0-2 isn't a disadvantage really as few coaches take more than 2 anyway.

I think keeping the standard fling stats and costs are better as I doubt many people would take them except for T8/16 TTM attempts. Even then a frenzied player or 2 or a catcher with SS, sprint or MA9 gives you a decent shot that might be better than relying on the Ogre and scatter.
With MA5 they are the slowest equal players whilst for Orcs Goblins are fastest equal and with dodge and stunty can be decent ball carriers. Catchers and throwers both fulfil this role better for humans as speed is one of their main strengths since they are one of the faster teams in the game.

[plasmoid]

Hi Hucker,
I'm glad you like the CRP+ human team.
I've always though halflings belonged on the human (Imperial) team. Not only that - it's kind of a mirror of the Orc team, with both being in the starter box and all.
To me, that's a good reason to just do it like gobbos on the Orc team - i.e. Extra position: 0-4 halflings.

Cheers
Martin

Oh and Spubbbba, AV8 catchers makes a bigger difference than you'd think. Playing against them the catchers certainly feel a lot less like the obvious easy target

[EastCoast]

Make catcher 80K, give them guard as a starting skill. It think it suddenly makes them a very interesting positional (blodge+sidestep really increases the human effective TV range). Their str 2 and Ag 3 and AV 7 still makes them very killable. Moving catchers in for a crucial assist becomes a risk/reward decision, as they very well may wind up dead on the next turn. Plus makes the 90K cost on blitzers a little more palatable, makes MNGs by blitzers hurt a little less, and lets you vary your blitzer builds since you don't need to turn all 4 into guard machines.

Just my .02.

[Shteve0]

0-2 Human Catcher 80k 7337 Catch, Sure Feet GA/SP.



Just my 2c

[EastCoast]

Not a fan of the str 3 catcher, but I do like your proposal better than any of the others I've seen. Needs 2 skills to get blodge... but for 80K don't you think swapping sprint for sure feet would keep it a little more in line?

I still think guard would be better, but I like the cut of your jib, regardless.

[Shteve0]

I like catch, sure feet because of the way it references the thrower's pass, sure hands.



I've said it elsewhere before, but my personal view is that the human catcher should be stronger and slower than an elf specialist in the same position, and not better armoured. That's my thinking with this take.

[macabeo]

Exactly, I've always thought that Human Catchers should be 7337 GA Catch, Sure Feet for 70k (80k is a bit expensive). Makes sense fluff-wise and goes well with the rerolling abilities of the human thrower and the theme of the human team in general.

[babass]

0-2 Human Catcher 80k 7337 Catch, Sure Feet GA/SP.



Just my 2c

Great player!

[Jembo17]

Would these suggested changes ever become *official* or could they only ever be a house rule at best?

[EastCoast]

I think the answer a couple of years ago would have been an emphatic "NO!". However, it appears Cyanide has been given some flexibility on creating new rosters (Brettonians in BB2 and Khorne in BBCE). I would be surprised to see the roster change, but I don't think anything could be ruled out.

[Milo]

I've always though halflings belonged on the human (Imperial) team. Not only that - it's kind of a mirror of the Orc team, with both being in the starter box and all.
To me, that's a good reason to just do it like gobbos on the Orc team - i.e. Extra position: 0-4 halflings.

I could totally get behind that. Human roster is pretty blah compared to Orcs or Chaos Pact.

[Glorian Underhill]

In the human gameplay Video for Blood Bowl II the human catcher has one times 8237 and the other time 8238.

[Chris]

Ah the catcher debate...

Leaving aside skills and cost people tend to look at the issue that the model isn't as well armoured as everyone else and there are 4 sculpts on the new teams, 2 on some of the old ones...

Certainly the human team is lacklustre and for me that is the biggest annoyance in bloodbowl - the ubiquitous race is rare seen, especially in long running leagues.

I have never liked the 7/3/3/7 ghoul solution because that puts them at the same speed as a blitzer. Giving them sure feet and/or sprint is a skills patch used by several teams instead of better stats which means you are still screwed in the long term leagues.

I have never liked the 8/2/3/8 solution because the models aren't ever that well armoured.

I've always thought he should be a mirror of the blitzer, i.e. 8/3/3/7. Skills tweaked to suit.

I would go for 2 teams
Empire Team (yep, alongside the Brets )
0-16 50k Lineman
0-4 80k Blitzers
0-2 80k Catchers 8/3/3/7 Catch, Dodge AG/PS
0-2 70k Throwers
0-4 30k Halflings
0-1 130k Ogre

Idea is cheaper players, new Halfling plays, catchers who ditch the armour for speed. Better in short term and tournaments.

and
Human team (pro humans?? )
0-16 50k Lineman
0-4 90k Blitzers
0-4 80k Catchers 8/3/3/7 Catch AG/PS
0-2 70k Throwers
0-1 140k Ogre

Straight up strength'd catchers, but lose dodge as starting skill. Human team remains overpriced to account for better long term development.

Of course when I am grand blood bowl overlord I will make a team based on the old 2nd edition models! Mwhahaha!
0-16 50k Linemen 6/3/3/8 G/APS
0-2 80k Blockers 6/3/3/9 Stand Firm GS/AP
0-2 80k Blitzers 7/3/3/8 Block GS/AP
0-2 80k Catchers 8/3/3/7 Catch, Dodge AG/PS
0-2 70k Throwers 6/3/3/8 Pass, Sure Hands GP/AS
0-2 70k Kickers 6/3/3/8 Kick, Kick Off Return G/APS
0-1 140k Ogre

Edit - can see the argument for a 7/3/3/7 sprint catcher here and 8/2/3/7 amazon catcher, but I still prefer 8/3/3/7...

[dode74]

I'd like to see 80k blitzers and 0-2 7338 Catch GA 80k catchers tested. I'd go for that largely for aesthetic and fluff reasons: baseline human is 6338 so the more athletic players get the "starring" roles depending on whether they are suited to playing as stronger or more agile players after training (A and S access). I'd not be averse to testing 8337 instead (but probably 90k) should the 7338 not prove good enough.