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 Post subject: Chaos Marauder Teams
 Post Posted: Tue May 26, 2015 7:22 pm 
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So back in 2004 , the Warhammer Fantasy world was being rocked by the "Storm of Chaos".

GW decided that the Warhammer 40K 13th Black Crusade went so well and got so much attention, that they were going to do the same thing in the Warhammer Fantasy world.

They made a campaign, a bunch of new models, and staged a huge online event where players could report their match results to influence the outcome of the future of Warhammer Fantasy.

As part of all of this, they released the Chaos Marauder box set. They're like Norse, except evil, Chaos worshipping, warpstone tainted, cannibals that live further north in the Chaos Wastes. Some of you are probably Warhammer players and are familiar with all of this already.

I was playing Blood Bowl in Milwaukee at the time and all of this gave me an idea for a new team, or set of teams really. I thought that it would be a great idea for Blood Bowl teams from the Chaos Wastes NFL (Northern Football League) to take this opportunity to travel south and finally compete in the Majors against the puny southern teams. They would seize their ancient trophies and carry them back to the wastes as prizes.

These teams aren't just like any other Chaos team that crawl their way out of the Drakwald forest. These teams are dedicated to, and sponsored by, one of the 4 major powers of Chaos.

The team consists of 0-16 Chaos Marauders (Norse Linemen), 0-4 Beastmen, 0-4 Chosen (Chaos Warriors each with a starting skill up based on which God they worship and a higher price), and 0-1 Chaos Troll (Orc Troll without the skills related to throwing a team mate).

Rerolls are the same cost as a normal chaos team, as well as their Star Players available for inducement.

Chaos Marauder Teams

I've only gotten to play the roster once, back in my 2005 league. I played a Tzeentch team and they did all right. Some of the coaches were worried that they were going to be overpowered and unbalanced, but it turned out that they weren't any worse than Norse, Chaos, or Orcs in the long run.

Also did a fifth version of the roster for Undivided teams due to some concerns of balance.

Undivded Marauder Teams

Thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Marauder Teams
 Post Posted: Tue May 26, 2015 7:25 pm 
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The Undivided roster.


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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Marauder Teams
 Post Posted: Wed May 27, 2015 1:14 pm 
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First off, why beastmen?

2nd... trolls are orcs and gobbo's, mino's fit with beasts, so why not an Ogre?

And 3rd, you don't need to cut throw team mate, as it is irrelevant to the team...

As for the starting skill, how about everyone gets a it a starting mutation? (Regardless, switch frenzy for thick skull and frenzy is a bit better than the others.)

Khorne - Thick skull (ok, couldn't think of a good mutation, maybe prehensile tail)
Slannesh - Disturbing Presence (naked)
Nurgle - Foul Appearance (naked :) )
Tzeentch - Very Long Legs
Undivided - Maybe pro as a proxy for liking a bit of everything.

Idea is they are all sub par skills so there is plenty of development in them.


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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Marauder Teams
 Post Posted: Wed May 27, 2015 1:37 pm 
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Beastmen and CW with GSM?
With that access spamming the CPOMB combo is too easy.
No player in the roster should have GSM, either GM or GS and mutations with a double.
Marauders with GM are fine.

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Marauder Teams
 Post Posted: Thu May 28, 2015 12:06 am 
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MattDakka wrote:
No player in the roster should have GSM, either GM or GS and mutations with a double.


Umm, when was the last time you looked at the Chaos Teams roster?


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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Marauder Teams
 Post Posted: Thu May 28, 2015 12:53 am 
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Lordhelmawr wrote:
MattDakka wrote:
No player in the roster should have GSM, either GM or GS and mutations with a double.


Umm, when was the last time you looked at the Chaos Teams roster?

I'm well aware of how the Chaos roster is, and in the long run the easy cpomb access becomes gamebreaking.
Using a poorly designed roster (too weak at low TV due to lack of core skills, too strong at high TV due to cpomb easy access) as model is not a good idea
Chaos Pact roster has the same issue: marauders with GSPM access make it an exploitable roster.

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Marauder Teams
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:47 am 
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Chris, fluff wise Beastmen are all over the Chaos Wastes. Plus there are war bands who were scooped up by the Hordes of Chaos as they swept south and pressed into service or joined willingly at the beckoning of the dark gods. Rules wise it takes the linemen from the chaos team and limits them into a more positional role as blizters.

As for why the troll? I suppose an ogre or minotaur would have worked just as well, but fluff wise GW put out these models of Image
Chaos Trolls and I thought they would go well with the Marauder team. Rules wise I wanted to mix things up and set this team apart from Chaos.

And Matt, the Chaos team can field 16 players with CPOMB, this roster can field a max of 9...........


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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Marauder Teams
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:04 am 
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Er...no, it can do 16.

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Marauder Teams
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:46 pm 
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Darkson wrote:
Er...no, it can do 16.


Well, with doubles on skill ups, sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Marauder Teams
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:06 pm 
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Lordhelmawr wrote:
And Matt, the Chaos team can field 16 players with CPOMB, this roster can field a max of 9...........

Although the theoric amount of clawpombers on a Chaos team is 16, it's actually impossible to have 16.
On FUMBBL the amount of clawpombers on a team generally varies from 1 to 6 in the extreme cases, even 3 clawpombers are enough to turn a game into a CAS roll fest, so if any of your teams can have up to 6 clawpombers, the roster has a balance issue.

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Marauder Teams
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:06 pm 
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So, what it sounds like is, the pro's around here are having a problem with CPOMB being broken, and not necessarily just on this roster, but in general.

So Skaven, Nurgle, Chaos Dwarf, and Chaos are all dominating the long running leagues?


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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Marauder Teams
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:56 pm 
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Quote:
So Skaven, Nurgle, Chaos Dwarf, and Chaos are all dominating the long running leagues?
Having looked around a lot of different and perpetual leagues I'd say that no, they are not.

I think the reason people don't like CPOMB is it adds a lot of variance which can have long-term effects. You can play CPOMB and come away with no injuries or you can play them and feel the team is beyond redemption. Admittedly this can happen against any team but it happens to higher AV teams (which generally rely on lower variance in casualties to be viable, imo) more against CPOMB than against other teams.


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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Marauder Teams
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 7:24 pm 
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No, my problem is that you've added a roster that is better than the basic chaos roster. You've removed the "waste" that is Horns across the basic position (with the savings), replaced the Mino with a cheaper and better Big Guy (more savings) and added Block to the starting team, meaning it does better in the short-term. Add in with 4 Beastmen, 4 CW and BG means you only need to run with 2 Marauders on the team (which is what this team is meant to represent), and all-in-all just not a fan.

I'm not saying it's unbalanced, it's just to good for a house-rule roster.

At the very least, make both the Beastmen and CW 0-2 - make the Marauders the focus, not an afterthought.

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Marauder Teams
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 8:02 pm 
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Making a roster better than Chaos (but with all the flavor of Chaos-ey goodness) was kind of the point, and honestly wasn't hard to conceptualize. Why would I want to make one that was worse?

Is this roster better than Chaos? I'd like to think so.

Will it destroy your league and dominate all of Blood Bowl? No.

Is it the best roster out there? No.

Was it designed to be? No.

I understand the point of contention with minimum marauders on the field, but other rosters do the same thing with their linemen positions. How many linemen do you have to put on the field when playing Orcs? Exactly 0. Humans? 0. Linemen have never defined a team (halflings and goblins excluded).

This at least makes you put marauders on the field, and they will be the spares on your roster for in game casualties, so maybe you leave a beastman or two in the dugout during league play to help them skill up. Besides, Chaos Warriors are just Marauders who have found the favor of the gods and been gifted with Chaos Armor fluffwise.


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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Marauder Teams
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:53 pm 
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Will it destroy your league and dominate all of Blood Bowl? No.
If it's better than one of the best races out there then it very well might. Without testing you have no idea at all.

Some might disagree with the concept, but it is better to aim for slightly underpowered and tweak upwards than the other way around since an underpowered team won't alter the metagame.


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