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 Post subject: Artifice Team - Bashy Passing??
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:21 am 
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This is my attempt at a bash leaning hybrid team with a focus on the passing (rather than running) game. I'm not convinced that such a thing is actually possible, but I wanted to give it a shot anyway. Fluff-wise, they're themed around artificial creations.

Code:
Qty  Title              Cost     MA  ST  AG  AV  Skills                               Normal  Double
16   Slime              40,000   4   2   2   9   Foul Appearance, Dodge                  G     ASPM
2    Homonculus         60,000   4   2   3   8   Kick-Off Return, Pass, Strong Arm,     GP      SP
                                                 Sure Hands
4    Quicksilver Slime  90,000   7   2   3   7   Dodge, Catch, Nerves of Steel, Stunty  AM     GSP
2    Warp Automaton     90,000   6   3   3   8   Block, Dauntless                       GS     APM
2    Clay Golem         100,000  4   4   2   8   Stand Firm, Tackle, Thick Skull        GS      AP
1    Stone Golem        130,000  3   5   1   10  Bone-head, Loner, Mighty Blow,          S     GAP
                                                 Multiple Block, Stand Firm, Thick Skull
0-8   Rerolls   70,000

You can also check them out on FUMBBL if you don't like my code block table. (If you do use the table here, remember to scroll down to see the whole team. :)) Below are my thoughts on the different positions.

Slimes: I felt this team was going to need very good line fodder, because if they play as intended they'll likely be scoring more often than your average bash team, so they need to be able to eat those free LOS blocks. However, I didn't want the linemen to have much, if any, offensive utility, as then they'd just use them to form up a cage. Which eventually led me to this incredibly odd beast. With ST and AG both at 2, and only 4 MA, they're all but useless for anything proactive. But with AV 9 + FA and Dodge, they're very resilient. Even assuming they'll be eating two die blocks most of the time, FA and Dodge together provide similar (tho not identical) protection as Blodge, so they should be pretty difficult to take down.

My big concern with them (and indeed most of this team) is that maybe they're a bit too min maxed. Also, with how cheap they are a lot of coaches are going to look at them and immediately want to just foul all the time, and while I don't mind the idea of this team getting in on the stomping action, I don't want it to be overly fouly either.

Homonculus: This guy is sort of the centerpiece of the team, in a strange way. To get the effect I wanted, I needed a good thrower than wouldn't be very good at just carrying the ball into the endzone themselves. MA 4 and ST 2 should make them very unattractive for that role, while Strong Arm and KOR offset the low MA's impact on initial ball retrieval and being able to get into position for a good throw.

Quicksilver Slime: These guys are, of course, the other end of the teams passing game. They're ST 2 again to discourage from just carrying with them, Catch because that's their job, and NoS and Stunty are mostly to deal with the fact that the rest of your team is so slow you really won't be able to stop the opposition crowding all over them if they want to, while your thrower is far too slow to reliably toss directly to the end zone. They have M access just so that there's some room to develop them in different directions, since without it they'd all be Side Step/Sure Feet and then a lot of coaches would just kick them for no doubles/stats. Access to Horns and Big Hand also gives the team some potential for developing a ball stealing threat, which is good since I feel like their defense is lacking.

Warp Automatons: These are the blitzers of the team, as well as the most well rounded piece they have. They're a bit slow for a blitzer, but it's a slow team (besides the quicksilvers) so I think that fits. They have Dauntless to give the team a bit of a leg up against teams like Orcs, Chaos, and Lizards who all manage to both out strength and out speed them. M access on doubles is mostly so they can get Claw, without it being an automatic first/second skill on every single one of them. They should fill a role similar to Stormvermin, hunting down and taking out important targets.

Clay Golems: These guys are essentially meant to be the pillars around which the rest of the team pivots, as well as instrumental to walling off the opposition from your half of the pitch, whether on defensive or just to keep your thrower safe. The only thing really odd about them is Tackle, which I threw in partially to make them less of just a "worse Flesh Golem" and also maybe give the team a bit of a boost against dodgy agile team. I'm not totally sold on it tho, and might want to trade it for a point of AV or maybe just drop it and lower the price 10k.

Stone Golem: The Big Guy. His job is mostly to be an immovable object for the other team to bash up against, sort of like a Tree, altho he's a bit more varied in what he can do with less ST and more MA. He also starts with MultiBlock, a choice I went with partially because it's a skill you never really see and partially because I felt like the team was a bit lacking in the damage output department, especially early on. This gives them the potential for 2 MB hits per turn right out of the gate, but it requires careful setup to make happen and neither one can be a blitz so getting them onto important targets should be quite difficult.

So that's my attempt at a Bashy Passing team. They're really more of an experiment in team design than an attempt at a really well made team, but I do think the idea would be cool to see out on the pitch if it can be put together in a way that works without being overpowered. Hopefully it's at least interesting to look at if nothing else, and of course if anyone has any thoughts or feedback they'd like to share I'd love to hear it. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Artifice Team - Bashy Passing??
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:45 am 
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I like the team idea, but I'm afraid you have too many options. At 6, it's more than any other team out there.

Undead have Mummies, Skeletons, Zombies, Ghouls and Wights - With only the Mummy being close to a highly specialized role and the Zombie and Skeleton being cheap linemen who are difficult to take out.

Dark Elves have Linemen, Blitzers, Witch Elves, Runners and Assassins. That's 5 and they are pretty much the gold standard for options where no particular option is min-maxed. You have 6 options where every single one is min-maxed around a single attribute.

I would stick to 4 positionals for teams that are highly specialized. Otherwise, it's too easy to tinker.

Also, having a dodge, stunty, catch, nerves of steel positional with a kick-off return, pass, strong arm, sure hands passer means you get all the stunt shenanigans with none of the negatives. And with access to mutation, they will quickly skill up.

I envision that you're gonna see a lot of 2-headed quicksilver slimes with extra arms. Just saying that fills me with glee, but I'd like to see some stats on how your team plays. I suspect you'd have a lot of games where you got 5+ touchdowns.


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 Post subject: Re: Artifice Team - Bashy Passing??
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:11 pm 
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Norse and Orcs both have 6 positions. That said, I'm slightly concerned about their current capacity for fielding 11 non-linemen, so I may yet tweak the numbers there. That would require all of the other ST 2 positions tho and none of them are particularly great at getting hit so maybe it's not an issue, idk.

As to all the stuff about how min maxed they are, I'm aware of that and I don't really know what to do about it other than just try not to make them OP despite it. The problem is that scoring quickly (the thing passing is good at) is rarely a thing you want to do, because of clock management and the like. Any team that has the stats and skills to build a cage is going to play a running game instead, even if they're perfectly capable of passing. Since you can't really be a "bash" team without some strength (or a lot of blocking skills) if I didn't gimp their running game somehow they would just use that and never really pass. If all I did was gimp the running game without giving them something good in return they'd just be crap.

That's why I'm concerned the whole concept may not even be possible. It may well just require too much min-max to be acceptable.

Scrappa wrote:
Also, having a dodge, stunty, catch, nerves of steel positional with a kick-off return, pass, strong arm, sure hands passer means you get all the stunt shenanigans with none of the negatives. And with access to mutation, they will quickly skill up.

I see what you're saying, but I think the thrower is not as good as you're imagining. Remember they only have 4 MA, so while KOR means they can reach the ball regardless of where it lands (assuming they started in the middle of their half) they won't be taking it anywhere else fast. It should be pretty rare that they get to make a quick pass, and long passes should be pretty common. They need that Strong Arm to actually have a chance at making their passes, and without the kick off return they'd often be spending multiple turns just getting to the ball.

Now the quicksilvers I could see dropping catch from the starting skills if needed. I think they're going to need NoS tho, and giving them P access so they can get it on a level would feel a bit weird. Their whole job is to run around enemy territory waiting to catch the ball and run it in while the rest of your team puts the beat down at midfield, so they're pretty much on their own most of the time.

Quote:
I envision that you're gonna see a lot of 2-headed quicksilver slimes with extra arms. Just saying that fills me with glee, but I'd like to see some stats on how your team plays. I suspect you'd have a lot of games where you got 5+ touchdowns.

That's pretty much what I'd expect as well, re: the slimes skilling up. The dropping catch idea above is basically just a way to possibly delay that.

As to 5+ TD games, I think you overestimate. Remember how slow that thrower is, and more importantly remember that every time they do score their opponent gets control of the ball. Basically only elf teams are going to score quickly enough themselves to let these guys pull off a ton of TDs. And even they might not score as fast/often as usual for fear of getting punched by the Stone Golem.

Actually seeing them played and getting info on how they perform "in the wild" rather than in my (and other's) head would of course be fantastic. Wish I knew of a way to make it happen. :)

Anyway, thanks for the comments! Really appreciate it.


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 Post subject: Re: Artifice Team - Bashy Passing??
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:16 pm 
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I'd play against the team with my gobbos and even let you join a league with it. Theoryhammer is all well and good, but I'd like to see how your win rates go against it.

I might be in the minority here, but because Blood Bowl is filled with things like Dungeonbowl, wizards, chainsaws and even Halfling, Gobbo and Ogre teams, I'm not really huge on game balance. You have a cool idea.

Now I really, really, really want to play an underworld team. Might be time to break out the evil gits, with their beautiful anthem:

"We're the *bleep bleep* Evil Gits!
We'll *bleep* and *bleep* and *bleep* on you."


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