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 Post subject: Shady Deals (new on-pitch mechanics)
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:58 pm 
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I really would like to hear some opinions. Like, whether it's already too far from the original concept, too complex, or may add additional layer of interactions between coaches on the pitch (like it seems to me)

Some fluff, if nobody minds :)

In the morally/ethically ambiguous world of BB shady deals is a common affair, be it referees officially allowed to accept bribes, or sponsors threatening your life if they think you weren't endorsing them enough. Though matches' organizers still struggle to preserve a semblance of sportsmanship on the pitch, to not disappoint their audience (and thus not lose their source of income), they don't have enough political power to fend off pressure put by grim reality of intense multiple-layer competition common in this environment.

Thus a new trend has arrived and rooted in, finally getting official approval, the same way as bribes did before. A limited negotiations over course of the ongoing match are now allowed, under strict supervision of the Referee Guild. A completely and blatantly negotiated matches are not (yet?) tolerated, of course, as this would surely divert a lot of fans from the game, thus diminishing profits of a lot of involved.. entities.

Some of those deals are agreed upon and discussed between both coaches in details preemptively, before the match starts (yet so artistically executed, that seem like the real thing.. almost), others are improvised on spot, with an ultimatum thrown in the opposing coach's face while one of his best players is being stomped or stabbed on the pitch in front of him.

The idea itself:

A new optional Extortion/Shady Deals mechanics are added, which deal with new and enhances some old alleys of psychological warfare coaches may confront each other at. In certain clearly defined/regulated circumstances you may try to reach to the opposing coach using a referee as your mediator, proposing him a certain deal he may find.. acceptable, which he cannot violate after agreement is signed (there probably could be some D6 roll involved, and on 6 he still manages to find a loophole in the protocol and get away with it, while Extorting coach still follows his part of the deal). Each coach is granted one Extortion per match for free.

Here are some situations it may be used in:

1. When your opponent's valuable player was severely injured and he doesn't have Apo roll, or couldn't reroll it properly - you may offer him services of your own Apo instead (in case of failed Apo rolls this basically means he got another chance to reroll it with yours).. for a price. Your Apo is consumed, if he agrees. This item differs from the next one in that it covers all possible situations where your opponent could get hurt, like falling on GFI, Dodge or Leap etc, even if it happens during his own turn.

2. When your foul or PO (may be even a regular Blitz/Block/Stab or Wizard/Horatio) action was extremely effective, severely injuring/killing your opponent's valuable player(s), and he couldn't re-roll the injury properly with Apo (or doesn't have it), you may offer him to forget your grudge and revert all harm done to the player.. for a price. If your opponent agrees, the whole situation is perceived as if instead of actually hurting the player you would just threatened his life, extorting the opposing coach. If he submits to your claims, he can get back the Apo he wasted on him and his player is left on the ground in the same state he was in before that final armor/injury roll that led to Extortion (that's probably is too mild, and may doesn't seem like a good deal; probably should be at least left stunned, or moved to KO box, or those could be possible options you can choose when making your offer; in addition, player of the moving team which inflicted this injury he could be allowed to keep all SPPs he earned from it, even if the other coach submits to demands and thus injury is negated); yet your own player who committed the said actions still is left as he was after committing them (lying on the ground if it was PO, or staying adjacent in case of foul/block/Stab). So it's handled as sort of wicked re-roll happened. It probably also could work the same in case of inflicting injury when crowd surfing the player - like if you just threatened you will do this, if opposition won't submit to your claims.

Edit:
3. With your lips curved into a devilish smirk, you challenge your opponent to dare to reject your demands! As you've definitely got an ace up your sleeve! And you are not bluffing, not at all! At any time in the game (or, perhaps, at the start/end of your turn? or at kick off?), you can spend your Extortion to make a demand to your opponent. Draw 6-8 cards from Special Cards deck(s) dealing with some effects changing situation on the pitch and team's state drastically (Random Events, Dirty Tricks, Miscellaneous Mayhem are nice candidates; some artifacts cards may fit as well), without showing them to your opponent; out of them you need to select 2-3 which will be applied to your team, and 2-3 for the opposing team, and must discard the rest, while showing the discarded ones (but not the ones you selected!) to your opponent. You then clearly state which set of cards will be applied to which team. Then you make your demand. It's the other coach who must decide whether the cards will be applied, in the end (he can't know which exactly those cards are until it happens). If he decides it worth the risk, he rejects your demand and the cards are immediately played by the designated teams, whatever it will bring upon them (if card's effect cannot be applied at all, it's discarded; if it may still be able to apply till the end of the drive(half? match?), i.e., there is a slight possibility for it to happen, it's left in pending state, and applied immediately when possible; other approach could be that it's left to both coaches discretion when exactly to apply cards "assigned" to their opponent) Otherwise, he submits to your claims, and cards are discarded (you are allowed to show it to them, though, bragging about how finely you screwed them :) )

The idea here is that you must try to scam/bluff the opposition into actions which will benefit you most. It's as if you prepared some plot to disrupt their game (or may be just trying to look like it will disrupt their game more than yours..), but offer them last time to consider giving you what you want before you'll proceed with your suicidal shenanigans (potentially hurting yourself in the process). The card usually either helps the team it will be applied to, or harms it. You know exactly what it is, and have a chance to make it more harmful for them than for yourself by redistributing the cards (as if you would try to scheme against them), but you can't apply them yourself - you need to trick the opposing coach into doing it for you. The requirement to show them discarded cards is needed for them to have a chance to evaluate credibility of your threats. Like, if they see you're discarding powerful cards, they may think you left even more powerful ones in place. Or may be you're just trying to trick them by discarding the only one valuable card you had, who knows; scaring them to death and making them accept your demand, thus fooling them into actually giving you what you need.

Edit2:
4. You can spend your Extortion action to add +2(+3?+4?) to either Armor or Injury roll during foul action. The opposition may negate it by spending their own Extortion. If it does seem too overpowered, fouler's chances to be caught could also be increased in that case; as an additional deterrent, the opposition could be allowed to not reveal their intentions until the foul is actually committed - then they may (or may not) negate the modifier - while fouler's chances of being caught are still left increased. Then again, it may be too harsh already, so it could be allowed to re-roll either armor, or injury roll, in addition to the bonus?

Thus you sort of provoke the other coach into burning his Extortion, by threatening his player - may benefit you if you have plenty yourself (like, in case optional rule allowing to pay for additional extortions with bribe is active). Or if you are more afraid of him using it for something else. Or may be you just don't care and want to gamble with all you've got to remove some player from the pitch.

If you succeed with the "Extortion foul" with result making you eligible for employing 2) from above, you can proceed with it and handle it like it's an extra free Extortion event of this type (thus, if you already have spent your free Extortion, and used a bribe to conduct the 4), you still is allowed to do 2) for free; if you still have your free Extortion, it's not spent if you decide to follow 4) with 2) as well). This works in such way even if the other coach decides to negate it by spending his Extortion.

Edit3:
5. If you have a ball-carrier in clear (i.e. no rolls of any kind) one-turn range of your opponent's end zone, it's your turn, and you haven't moved him yet, you may opt to make some demand to the other coach, proposing to effectively spoil your scoring opportunity in exchange (you must either release the ball, or throw it in the nearest crowd (coach being extorted chooses), and end your turn immediately). Can only be attempted once per drive, to prevent griefing with it constantly while stalling. This could be used in a lot of subtle ways, ranging from earning some profits from a match which doesn't change situation that much for you (like, you'll be kicked out of tournament in any case, or you think you simply can't win this one match anyway) to playing mind games with your opponent (like, you are sure yourself, that it's nothing and you'll get another chance to score soon anyway, so why not to risk a bit and extort something valuable from him?)

Other situations could be devised as well, I guess. Possible options of what could be demanded are provided in the next post. Additional ideas are highly anticipated :)

Some limit for number of Extortions could be set to make it harder to abuse this mechanics.. in any way. Once per half/match, per coach should be enough, I guess. In 1) and 2) the Extortion is only considered "spent" if it's resulted in opponent submitting to your claims. In 3) it's always spent.
Edit:
Optional rule: you may spend your bribes to execute additional extortion actions (1 bribe - 1 extortion)
Edit2:
..as additional limitation, they could be categorized, with only types 1), 2) and 5) allowed to be used for free (still once per match), and other 2 are only available for a bribe; bribes still allows you to use "free" kinds of Extortions more than once, as well (i.e., each bribe allows you to use one more Extortion of any kind)


Last edited by Mori-mori on Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:55 pm, edited 62 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Shady Deals (new on-pitch mechanics)
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:31 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:11 pm
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...irrelevant now...


Last edited by Mori-mori on Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Shady Deals (new on-pitch mechanics)
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:06 am 
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I'm starting running out of ideas, as I don't have option to test it somewhere (I'm not a very active TT guy..). It's hard to work with such complex stuff fully in your head, a simple playtest would shown all its issues right away, so it could be optimized, perhaps. Seems like nobody is interested enough to try it, though :)

Here are some updates. I changed my mind regarding allowing coaches to negotiate conditions freely. This process will make it even more complex and cumbersome. It needs to be streamlined. I started to think about it from an interface designer's perspective. If the negotiation process can be designed in such way that you can easily and quickly conduct it in a multi-player PC game, without saying a word to opposition, then this is a good, streamlined mechanics, and will work perfectly for TT as well. So here are steps:

    1) Extorting coach makes a proposal (in cases described in the 1st post). He is presented with a "dialog window" containing fixed selection of things he may demand (see below). He may select any number of them (for some of them he may select a quantity he wants), or select none, allowing the other coach to come up with something that may interest him. Then he clicks "Send proposal" button
    2) The other coach reviews conditions. He may agree right away, or he may decide to make a counter-proposal. 2 ways to handle the later (not sure which is better): he either a) is only allowed to reduce the set of conditions chosen by extorting coach, or b) is allowed to add his own conditions, as well. He then clicks "Start bargain" button.
    3) Extorting coach reviews the new set of conditions, and either agrees, or rejects. In later case it's treated as if the opposition rejected extorting coach's conditions anyway. Extortion is resolved at this point. For Extortion types 1), 2) and 5) if opposition accepts, Extortion is spent, and both parties fulfill their parts of the deal; if it's rejected, then Extortion is not spent, and play proceeds as if nothing has happened. Types 3) and 4) have their own rules, and Extortion is always spent in these cases.
    3b) An additional phase may be added to negotiations, in case the other coach came up with a counter-proposal. After getting counter-proposal, extorting coach reviews it, and if he is still not agree, he may decide to modify it himself, and sends to the other coach last time. Then the latter makes the final decision. He either may accept the original conditions, or the last one, or reject to comply to both. This prolongs the whole thing, but gives a solid way for coaches to come to some middle-ground, perhaps.
    4) Here may go some kind of a roll, allowing your victim to slip out from your grasp. Like, rolling a dice, and on 6 extorting coach still proceeds with his part of a deal, but the other coach does not. Perhaps, this roll could be optional, with a punishment for not succeeding. Like, losing your "Argue the call" attempt on it, if you still have any (then if it's not a 6, it's considered spent)

Here is list of possible things to request:

    1) Release or kick away (if it lies on the ground in opposition's tackle zone) the ball immediately (it bounces 1-3 times)
    2) Throw the ball into the nearest crowd immediately (straight line to closest edge; extorting coach chooses edge if distances are equal)
    3) Make him give you something of his own (if he has anything of those; items a) to g) are only redistributed for this one match, so you get plus 1-3 of the selected item, he gets minus 1-3 of it, till the end of it):
      a) Give you his bribe(s)
      b) Give you his Apo(s)
      c) Give you his TRR(s)
      d) Give you his extortion(s)
      e) Give you his card(s)/discard them safely immediately
      f) Give you his wizard/discard it safely immediately
      g) Transfer one of his players to your team for this match (he still gets Loner skill, as can be expected)
      h) Give you any kind of special item(s) he may have (if those are used in your league). If he agrees, you select which item(s)
      i) Give away his home stadium (either owned or where he is resident) to you, or abandon it after the match
      j) Send you some amount of money from his treasury
      k) Give you some of his standard rostered items permanently (Apo, TRRs, Coach Assistants etc, but not rostered bribes or chef; only applicable if you can normally have any of those (no limits are reached yet, your team can have Apo in the first place etc))
      l) Make him transfer the player you've selected to your team (he leaves his team after this match and joins yours - only if it's a player allowed in your roster (except for rostered Star Players, those can join any compatible team, yet their usual restrictions and conditions still apply); if you have max number of those players already (or just simply a max players (16) in the team), you are allowed to fire somebody first), or make him fire that player (leaves his team after this match)
    4) Send the player you've selected off the pitch immediately (either till the end of the drive (sent to sit on reserves bench), or for the rest of the match (sent to dungeon)). You may select your own player as well (to save him from deliberate gang fouling, for example)
    5) Move 1/2/3 players (selected by you) for 1-3 squares in any direction (without leaving the pitch; extorting coach is the one who moves them wherever he wants; they move freely, ignoring tackle zones, [optionally] even if they've moved this turn already; in case they haven't moved yet, this forced movement is counted as it, and they are inactive for this turn; you cannot place them on the very edge of the pitch)
    6) Make him to skip his next turn completely
    7) Force him to agree to advance/retract the turn counter for 1-3 turns
    8) Force him to agree to not use blitz/pass/hand-off/blocks/etc for 1-3 turns/for the rest of the drive
    9) Make him to end his turn immediately (can be nicely combined with "release the ball" or "move/send off players" kind of demands to subvert his defense/attack)

Edit:
One new extortion type is added to 1st post.

Edit2:
That idea about permanently transferring some assets of the other coach to you is not that good, I think. It opens easy, legit avenue for "kingmaking", allowing to transfer a lot of assets from one team to another. Unless limited in some way, it should be ruled out from the list. Temporal redistribution of assets just for that one match is fine, though, even including transfer of some player (till the end of the match) - if arranged earlier in the match, it may make a lot of sense, by, say, seizing his blitzing star (perhaps should still get Loner skill while playing on your side). Forcing him to just fire the player after the match if fine too, as well is, perhaps, forcing him to drop Apo, TRRs, Assistants etc. Home stadiums still should be allowed to be seized this way, as you can't have more than one anyway, and it gives one more thing you can contest for with the other coach, what is good for competitiveness (same goes for Special Items (if used), though there still should be some limit of them per team)

Edit3:
..yet without option to generate some permanent profit by getting money/TRRs/players from the other coach, the 5) type of Extortion becomes much less reasonable. As you spoil your Touchdown opportunity, and may be risking losing the whole match, you must get something really valuable from it, which will stay with you after it. Otherwise its usefulness becomes very situational, and mostly not worth it.
May be those options should still be allowed, but only for that very type of Extortion, and only once per match? Possibilities of kingmaking are severely decreased this way.


Last edited by Mori-mori on Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:28 am, edited 10 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Shady Deals (new on-pitch mechanics)
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:25 pm 
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A couple of reasons why going that meta-heavy may be good for the game, in general.

This adds a layer of interactions between 2 competing coaches, stretching beyond the regular procedures according to on-board rules, dragging them into realm where abstract mechanics and dice rolls don't mean that much, and their natural cunning and vicious mindsets decide the winner. More personal involvement and more tight confrontation are good for immersion and instill competitive spirit within community.

Due to said above, it also has potential to "round up" the whole balance issues between tiers a bit, as it allows to override the usual mechanics in key, decisive moments. Weak, yet unique teams, like Goblins, suddenly get a certain buff which goes along with their fluff extremely well - due to their cheap bribes they become masters of cunning and extortion, compensating for their pathetic on-pitch performance. Those mechanics open a lot of avenues to change situation on the pitch even for weakest teams, yet those changes are no decided as totally random interventions (and unnecessary additional randomness is generally frowned upon by coaches in this already more than enough random game), but as outcomes of short intense wits contests between coaches, thus it actually enriches game experience and makes coach feel yourself involved in the process.


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