my Werewolf idea....

gken1 · Post by **gken1** » Thu Mar 07, 2002 2:55 am

Werewolves were a classic bloodbowl team. They were around in first and second edition. I’ve seen a few versions adapted to third/fourth edition but feel that none of them due the old team justice. So here’s my attempt to revive the old team.

A werewolf team is led by a Wolf Lord. If he dies then the werewolf on the team with the next highest spp’s is “promoted” to Wolf Lord status. When a werewolf is promoted to Wolf Lord he loses the transformation trait and gains +1 ST. A wolf lord may only be bought at the formation of a team and cannot be taken as an ally.

Werewolves:
0-1 180,000 Wolf Lord MV 7 ST 5 AG 3 AV 8 traits: Woof Woof
skills: Mighty Blow, Break Tackle

0-15 70,000 Werewolf – human form– MV 6 ST 3 AG 3 AV 7 traits: transformation
Wolf-form- MV 7 ST 4 AG 2 AV 8 traits: woof woof Skills: Break Tackle

Rerolls: 70,000

New traits:
Transformation: before each kickoff each werewolf must roll a D6. On a 1-3 he is in human form and on a 4-6 he is in wolf form.

Woof Woof: If a werewolf is starts an action standing next to an opposing player he must block that opposing player or one of the opposing players if standing next to more than one. The werewolf may declare a blitz action to be able to move after the block.
If a werewolf causes a casualty on a skeleton it may not regenerate and the werewolf may do nothing the following turn.
If a werewolf starts a turn next to a treeman he must roll a D6, on a roll of a 1 he may do nothing for that turn.
This trait may never be removed.

Skill Progression:
Werewolves and Wolf Lord may take ST, AG, or General skills
Also werewolves do not need to roll doubles to the frenzy trait.
On doubles werewolves may take any ST, or General trait, or take razor sharp claws or claws physical ability.

Allies: Norse

Werewolf teams may take a wizard and an apothecary

(**Famous Werewolf Teams: Westside Werewolves, Icecastle Wolves
Famous Werewolf Players: Wilhelm Chaney**)—taken from 2nd edition Star Players and blood bowl Handbook—

Explanation of Design:
In 2nd edition werewolves had a transformation. They had to drop to the ground and change. I felt that with the change to 3rd/4th it was better to roll before kickoffs since 3rd/4th edition has a limited # of turns compared to 2nd. Plus it is simpler.
The werewolf form in 2nd edition had a +1 MV, +1 ST, +1 AG, +1 AV to represent the appropriate stats in 3rd/4th.
They also had low ball handling stats so that is the reason for Hairy Paws. The –2 will give them an equivalent 2 AG when ball handling. I kept the high AG so that they would be able to dodge well if they wanted to.
The woof woof is a 2nd edition carry over. It forces the werewolf to block without giving them frenzy. The other two parts of it are more for game flavor than anything

[ This Message was edited by: gken1 on 2002-03-07 08:49 ]

[ This Message was edited by: gken1 on 2002-03-07 08:51 ]

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Thu Mar 07, 2002 5:07 am

My thoughts gken1 ... by the way welcome to TalkBB ... I'm your host .... oh wait ... nope I just post to much ... JohnnyP is the DaBoss and the proud sponser but infrequent poster to this group .... Why is it that owners of discussion boards almost NEVER post on them I wonder ... Andy is the same way at the BBC .... ...... hmmmm opps I disgress ... my thoughts.

1) Lose the Wolf Lord, he's too good of a player, the team doesn't need an ST 5 player, and he has no basis for existance based on the 2nd edition team or the fluff about Weres in 2nd edition.
2) The Weres should have AG 2 and Break Tackle instead of AG 4 and Hairy paws ... its simpler and eliminates a special rule.
3) Do not allow the Weres to ever lose transformation ... the team will quickly become broken if you allowed this ... trust me I've played a Werewolf team for quite a while ... no losing transformation.
4) Only allow the predrive transformation on a 5 or a 6, instead of a 4+ ... 50% weres would be too much.
5) Give the Werewolf form, the Mighty Blow skill. This is right out of 2nd edition.
6) The team should only have General and Strength access ... giving them Agility is broken.

Basis for my comments, I played and commished over actual werewolf teams in my league for over a year.

Galak

gken1 · Post by **gken1** » Thu Mar 07, 2002 7:46 am

1. I like the Idea of the were lord only based on the fact that vampires get a vampire lord. If the vampires lose the vamp. lord then I'd be all for losing the wolf lord.
2. yeah. AG 2 with break tackle works better

3. I thought I deleted that out....missed a spot.
4. this was based on the vamps OFAB. would require playtesting.
5. with access to RSC, and Claws I didn't want to give it to them initialy
6. Yeah AG was a mistake.

I do like the Transformation roll before the drive though...it's alot simpler than the old drop to the ground and transform.

I also like separating each of the were's into their separate teams. Allows the Westside Werewolves and Kishargo Werebears to become reality teams.

Trambi · Post by **Trambi** » Thu Mar 07, 2002 8:18 am

gken1 : Most of people here play at the 2k1 edition of Blood Bowl. This edition is a result of BBRC (Blood Bowl review commitee an consul of seven experts of BB : Jervis Jonhson, Andy Hall, Chet ... sorry for other

) This version is avaible in the website of GW. Moreover the vampire team does'nt exist in this edition, and it's impossible to remote rc(racial caracteristic like bonehead,studidity, wild animal,...)

.
I play the BB 3rd edition with home rules. We use a vampire team without Vampire Lord but we use almost the same rules that CJ article "Big guys". Why not removing the werewolf lord (he is too powerfull

) ?

gken1 · Post by **gken1** » Thu Mar 07, 2002 8:44 am

i too play with the latest "rules". The only reason the vampire team was removed from officiality was there was no official minis. So the latest unofficial vampire team had a vampire lord which was a terror on the field. I am not against removing so said wolf lord but if the vampires get their vampire lord the werewolves should get their wolf lord.
Also I said I forgot to remove the fact that transformation is permanent (read my reply to Galak). I agree with the new rules that racial charateristics can't be removed.

[ This Message was edited by: gken1 on 2002-03-07 08:46 ]

Post by **voyagers_uk** » Thu Mar 07, 2002 8:49 am

I forgot to say Welcome gken1, how rude of me.

I like the idea of Were teams, not sure I could field one though, as I am sure the opposition would be wearing their silver knuckle-dusters

hairy hands indeed

gken1 · Post by **gken1** » Thu Mar 07, 2002 8:53 am

thanks, voyager...I am a BBcentral convert for now. There is no direction there currently just babbling. so I hopped over to the talk-bloodbowl site

Trambi · Post by **Trambi** » Thu Mar 07, 2002 11:04 am

SO vampire team without vampire lord and werewolf team without werewolf lord

I don't want to talk about removing rc

.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Thu Mar 07, 2002 11:56 am

Okay gken1 ... let me assure you that the Vampire team from BB Mag #1 will never return to Blood Bowl ... I have this one on good authority.

The plan is to rework the Vampire team along the Clan lines a project that Jervis is currently working on, if you want to get a decent idea for how BB2k1 Vampire teams will look then go here:
http://www.eng.buffalo.edu/~chz/bloodbo ... ndex.shtml
These teams were created by Chet before the special play cards were removed from the game, so delete the Necrarch's rule on Magic Item cards and you have you'll have a pretty good idea of what the BB2k1 will look like. I've playtested these rosters a bit and they are well balanced along the lines of a Chaos roster. Per Chet, you should ignore the rosters behind each team ... the Lord position is no longer allowed on any of his 5 Vampire teams.

Getting these teams official would really be pretty easy for Fanatic as all you'd need would be to commish 7 new figs to be scuplted and you could easily produce any of the teams ... 5 Vamps, Grave Guard, and a Human Thrall fig and poof Vampire Counts team go live.

Anyway consider this my way of promising you that the Vampire Lord will NEVER return to Blood Bowl. So no Werewolf Lord.

In addition, Off for a Bite has a very high likelyhood of never coming back either ... you'll notice that none of Chet's Vampire teams have this trait. So for your dugout transformation, I was using the new Vampire teams as my model ... roughly 1/3 of the new vampire team's on pitch players could be vampires which translated to a 5 or 6 compared to 4+.

If you change to a 5+ transformation roll, then I would go ahead with giving the were Mighty Blow ... it is a direct translation. As for them being able to grab Claw or RSC on doubles, if they do so they are taking a skill that can only be used in Were form (you should mention this). Whereas if they took a skill like Block then both the Human and Were form would have it ... makes it risky to grab Claw or RSC when you'll only get to use it 33% compared to another skill that would have 100% usage.

Trambi is our local Don Quixhote and removing rcs is his windmill ... enough said on that.

Oh and finally, if you want to see what my league did with the Weres ... well they show up in 3 teams in my league:
http://www.midgardbb.com/MBBLTeams/Lycanthrope.html
http://www.midgardbb.com/MBBLTeams/Halloweenies.html
http://www.midgardbb.com/MBBLTeams/Kislev.html

However ... I'm giving serious thought to your dugout transformation as Phil Bowen suggested this as well ... I'll have to think about it some more ... but if it means I could automate the Were change in the PBeM tool ... I'll probably go with a 5+ transformation. Thanks gken1 you've given me something to ponder.

Galak

Acerak · Post by **Acerak** » Thu Mar 07, 2002 6:30 pm

These teams were created by Chet before the special play cards were removed from the game, so delete the Necrarch's rule on Magic Item cards and you have you'll have a pretty good idea of what the BB2k1 will look like.

MIGHT look like. Jervis is writing up the Vampire Count teams, though they'll go past the BBRC first. If we have concerns, he'll listen to them and make changes as necessary. But don't bet the bank on any one particular format.

That said, I think the Vampire Count teams, designed by fellow BBRC member Milo Sharp and me, are pretty cool!

-Chet

gken1 · Post by **gken1** » Fri Mar 08, 2002 2:09 am

how about the option to lower the transformation roll by 1 on doubles?

if the vampire lord is gone, good riddence. that makes it simple to get rid of the wolf lord. I still feel the vamps should have a negative charateristic. OFAB with ability to reduce the roll would be great. They can control their urges but not completely. Remember that vampire teams in the fluff never did well.

Trambi · Post by **Trambi** » Fri Mar 08, 2002 11:34 am

They should the same rc than in the 3rd edition article in CJ about big guys.

I can't remember the english word for this skill ...

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Fri Mar 08, 2002 1:56 pm

Disagree .... I prefer Chet/Milo's Vampire roster over the old Off For A Bite team ... the team only has 4 Vampires total so the team play very much like a Chaos team ... 4 strong players with normal helpers.

I've played a 3rd edition Vampire team for 4 years across 3 leagues ... I'd gladly ditch them for Chet/Milo's teams which have a lot less rules mess and are easy to understand.

As of Vampires without rc being too strong ... these teams are definitely not too strong ... the players are expensive, and these are not the old 3rd ed vamps ... you could easily argue that a Chaos Warrior is better than any of the 5 types of Vampires from their teams which was not the case with a 3rd edition Vampire once he got on the pitch (ST4/AG4 ST,AG,Gen access .... give me a break .... this team was so broken it wasn't even funny ... the only thing that kept me from running away with the league my first season was that the Vampires in that league could not lose OFAB on doubles, if they could I would have crushed every team I faced. My Vampire Lord alone had 30 TDs in 15 games. Nah, ditch this team all together)

I really believe that Off For a Bite will never return to BB2k1 even if the Vamps do and I have no problems with that ... (and like I said I've played vampires longer than I've played any other roster).

Sorry Trambi/gken1 .... I have no desire at all to see anything that resembles the 3rd edition team and I'd definitely want to see OFAB disappear from the Vampire roster (especially if the team only has a maximum of 4 Vamps .... which I pretty sure it will ... whatever Jervis comes up with).

Galak

[ This Message was edited by: GalakStarscraper on 2002-03-08 13:58 ]

Acerak · Post by **Acerak** » Fri Mar 08, 2002 2:13 pm

I still feel the vamps should have a negative charateristic. OFAB with ability to reduce the roll would be great. They can control their urges but not completely. Remember that vampire teams in the fluff never did well.

That's true, they never did. Remember that these are Vampire COUNT teams, here to show the world what REAL Vampires can do!

-Chet

Trambi · Post by **Trambi** » Mon Mar 11, 2002 7:50 am

I have got to check the new vampires teams