Brettonians and Kislev

[tommy316]

Lifted this from Martin (the ideas originator) off of the mailing list, so some of you may have seen this.

This is probably the most complete and thought out concept I've seen in a while and gives good arguement as to why there could be a Kislev team.
They play a very different style game then any other human team, especially under this concept.

***Star of the Tzar***

*Kislev*
To the north and east of the empire lies the land of Kislev. The soil
of
Kislev is poor, as is it's people - and the unforgiving winter gives
little
respite, as it almost permanently covers the dense forests and sweeping
plains.

But worse than this, Kislev borders on the chaos wastes - it is wedged
in
between the twisted wasteland and the other nations of man. Whenever
chaos
rises, it is the fate of the Kislevites to be first in line against the
onslaught. If Kislev falls, so soon will all mankind. There are few in
Kislev who haven't lost either friends or kindred to chaos, and they
are
unrelenting in their resolve against their ancient enemy.

Even so, the people of Kislev sing and dance in the face of danger.
Knowing
that their lives will probably be short and harsh - they endeavor to
make it
so much the sweeter, without ever weakening their vigilance.

*Blood Bowl in Kislev*
Constantly being the old worlds main defense against impending doom has
had
it's effect on kislevite mentality, and the Kislevites have come to
prefer
"not losing" over "winning at all cost".
Nowhere is this more evident than on the Blood Bowl pitch.

Kislevite Blood Bowl is all about a strong defense - under no
circumstance
may even a single opponent slip through the line. Once the opposing
team has
shattered itself on the Kislevite defense, the Kislevites will retrieve
the
ball - and perhaps mount an offense. Many a time a Kislev coach has
played
for the draw, rather than attempting a desperate attack that would
compromise his defensive line if something should go wrong.

**Kislev Team**
0-12 Linemen 5 3 3 8 sidestep - G, 60K
0-4 Cossack Blockers 5 3 3 9 block, tackle - G, ST, 90K
0-2 Wings 6 3 3 8 catch, Pblock - G, AG, 90K
0-2 Kicker 6 3 3 8 kick, HMP - G, 70K*
ReRolls 40K, No Big Guy, Normal Apoth & Wizard
Starplayer: Ezaul Urza (trained bear), Boris Streltsin

(*If using the new optional kicking rules, then the kickers can also
get KI
skills, and cost 80K).

----------------------
***Did You Know?***
The term "sacking" a quarterback actually originates from Kislev. The
Cossack blockers play very aggressively, and often get their hands on
the
opposing ball handler more than once per game. Soon, crunching the ball
handler became known as "cossacking" - or simply "sacking".
----------------------

*Team Idea*
A long time ago, I wanted to make a team for each human race. However,
these
became more like a random collection of stats, rather than players to
fit a
playing style. Eventually I abandoned the project, but the Kislevites
stayed
with me, for they were the only ones that had a clear design purpose: A
hyper-defensive team.

The release of the Kislev miniatures for Mordheim got me thinking about
them
again. My old draft had proved boring to play, so I approached the team
from
a different angle this time. At this point, I got the idea that
Kislevites
would employ "punting", and this interestingly coincided with Chet
Zeshonskis rules for kickers and field goals.

*The kicking Controversy*
Since the team allready employs kickers, it seems appropriate to take
Chets
new kicking rules from CJ into account.

In a nutshell - if you are using the new rules, then Kislevite Kickers
also
have access to KI skills. The kickers have no KI skills on the roster,
because this way the team can be used with or without the new kicking
rules.

A little background:
When Sethryn Wyrmsbane presented his newly unearthed rules for field
goals
to the astonished Blood Bowl world, a roaring debate about the 'proper'
place for kicking in Blood Bowl ensued.

However, in Kislev, the new rules were greeted with a cheer. Spectator
attendance had been dwindling for years in Kislev, as games had become
increasingly boring. Sure, a strong defense doesn't lose you any
matches,
but endless 0-0 repeat performances was slowly killing the game.

With the new rules in place, public interest is once again soaring.
Now,
Kislevites can watch their favourite side put some points on the board,
without ever breaking their defensive formation.

In Kislev, field goals have come to stay!

*Star Players*
Boris Streltsin is a kislevite punter, and is so far the only star
player to
use the kicking skills. He will only be usable with the kicking rules.

Ezaul Urza is a trained bear - a pseudo big guy. The miniature is
awesome,
so I can live with the fact that a bear on the pitch is a little odd.
It's
standing on it's hind legs, and will not be using any special rules.
I'm thinking along the lines of:
4 5 1 9 thick skull, claw, frenzy, (new) diving tackle, mighty blow.

*And finally*
I don't much like special coaching staff myself, but if _you_ do, then
heres
a suggestion for an alternative apothecary - (or an alternative wizard,
if
you want to keep the standard apothecary). It's based on the magic
properties of Vodka.
The "apothecary" can not be used for healing injuries, but instead,
roll a
d6 for each player in your casualty box who is not dead, at the same
time
that you would make KO recovery rolls.
On a roll of 6, the player is allowed to return to the match (permanent
injuries are NOT ignored).

[Marcus]

cf my previous post on this.

That's 14, count 'em, 14 players who start with skills off their skills list. 14 Doubles rolls before you even get so much as an SPP.

I remain in favour of new minis for old teams.

Marcus

[Longshot]

I think that this team is not balanced, they can have, AG,ST or G skills...
Wings shouldnt have AG skills.

Anyway, i dont think this team can give something new to the game.

Agree with Marcus About Minis.

[DaFrenchCoach]

I think that this team is not balanced, they can have, AG,ST or G skills...
Wings shouldnt have AG skills.

In fact, their progression is the same than for human teams (general roster)... And you can't have 4 wings, whereas you can have 4 catchers...

I must admit I find it very interesting, and I will try it for a match... The most difficult is knowing how this team would progress in a league (no big guys, as marcus said, a lot of skills in the beginning...)

the "did you know" was very funny

[tommy316]

Longshot wrote:
I think that this team is not balanced, they can have, AG,ST or G skills...
Wings shouldnt have AG skills.

Anyway, i dont think this team can give something new to the game.

1.) DFC is right, the basic Human team has access to AG, ST, and G. Plus the Kislev team can only have 2 Wingers, as opposed to 4 catchers, that can really make a down field effort. And this team as no access to Passing skills or Big Guys (although I think a trained Bear would be fitting, and no it wouldn't be near the disaster that the Unicorn was- at least a Bear can carry the ball).

2.) As far as something "new" to the game, well I don't know of any other team that is so defensive-minded. They kinda remind me of the Baltimore Ravens, pound the other team into the ground and hope your weak offense can get some points on the board.

Marcus wrote:
That's 14, count 'em, 14 players who start with skills off their skills list. 14 Doubles rolls before you even get so much as an SPP.

I believe they wanted to use Side-step to show how tenacious the Kislev.
And the HMP was to represent punting the ball out of your end of the field.
I have no problem starting a team like this to represent characteristics of a society, as opposed to starting the Linemen with G and AG skill access and having the Kickers start with G and Passing Skill access.

Only playtesting and time will tell, I think the idea for new mini's as great. And I've about given up on trying to figure out a Brettonian roster, but I really think this team will have a very different feel about it and require a different strategy then normal human teams.

[tommy316]

What about a switch from Side-Step to Tackle for the linemen???
(JKL suggested it on the list) I kinda like that idea, because then it stays closer to the general guidelines of most teams.

[GalakStarscraper]

Players:


tommy316 .... suggestion ... if you are willing to go with tackle for the linemen than I would strongly suggest just using the Half-Orc roster stats which has many benefits to you.
1) Its been heavily playtested.
2) It actually does play with a much different strategy than any existing team.
3) This roster is a direct translation of a 1st edition team so it has some history behind it for balance
4) 90% of the elements of the Kislev team you posted is already mixed in.

0-12 Lineman 50,000 6 3 2 8 Tackle General
0-2 Kicker 90,000 6 3 3 7 Tackle, Kick, Hail Mary Pass General
0-4 Blitzer 90,000 6 3 2 8 Tackle, Block, Sure Hands General, Strength
0-4 Black Half-Orc Blocker 100,000 5 4 2 9 Tackle General, Strength

Blame the AG 2 on the Vodka basically just change the names and presto instant Kislev team.

Watch:

0-12 Lineman 50,000 6 3 2 8 Tackle General
0-2 Kicker 90,000 6 3 3 7 Tackle, Kick, Hail Mary Pass General
0-4 Cossack Blocker 90,000 6 3 2 8 Tackle, Block, Sure Hands General, Strength
0-4 Hun Savage 100,000 5 4 2 9 Tackle General, Strength

There you want a Kislev roster that I would play and allow in my league there's my answer to you.

Galak

[Trambi]

Players:

(...)
0-12 Lineman 50,000 6 3 2 8 Tackle General
0-2 Kicker 90,000 6 3 3 7 Tackle, Kick, Hail Mary Pass General
0-4 Blitzer 90,000 6 3 2 8 Tackle, Block, Sure Hands General, Strength
0-4 Black Half-Orc Blocker 100,000 5 4 2 9 Tackle General, Strength
(...)
Galak

I like this team !

[Princelucianus]

Why not make them like amazon, but then as sidesteppers??

So, the prices and all scores are the same, but remove dodge and add sidestep. Maybe the catcher should keep the basic human statistics.

Lucy

[Acerak]

I don't like the AG2 Linemen proposed by Galak. To me, this screams, "I am a fudge designed to product a 50K cost!"

-Chet

[GalakStarscraper]

Actually Chet .... just for the record ... its not a fudge.

The Half-Orc lineman in 1st edition was a human lineman who was better at tackling (Tackle skill) but worse at agility maneuvers (AG 2).

I computed the costs of each player on the Half-Orc 1st edition translation AFTER I had converted the stats and skills ... so the 50k is "translation" not a "fudge."

Sorry, I realize that Chet/Acerak may not have a 1st edition Death Zone (or care about an older edition of the game), but the word fudge to me is a four letter word (it just happens to have 5 letters).

Galak

[Trambi]

Rulz Guru vs Da Numba Kruncha
I think that this discution could be very interresting.

Galak perhaps instead of AG -1, Give them MV-1 cos they are half orc. (Orc has mv 5)

[Longshot]

interesting thing:
why do you translate Kikers from 1st ED and not from second Ed.
and why not tranlate them into nothing or thrower?

why dont Tacle, HMP only?

or should we tranlate Kikers from all Kikers from 2 Ed too?
by the way, i still dont know the optional rules for kiking in 2k1 (or 3/4Ed).

[GalakStarscraper]

Okay, we've gone way off target here.

I presented the half orc roster translated from 1st edition only because it VERY closely mirrored the Kislev team that was being discussed if you switched the lineman from Side Step to Tackle.

At some point I'll put the full translation of the Half Orc team on the board and if you all disagree with it then you suggest changes ... but the Half-Orc roster IS a decent translation from 1st edition, all 4 positions are needed to make the team playable, and its been pretty well playtested.

Its one of the VERY few new rosters I'd like to see added back to Blood Bowl or at least printed up in the magazines. (the Slann roster translated from 2nd edition is the other and the fixed Titchy version of the Snotlings are the other 2).

Galak

[Norse]

Hi G,

I'm curious as to the question of Half-Orcs. I have no issue with the rules, but Half-Orcs shold be closer in type to goblins (according to fluff, Tolkein, etc etc) than to Orcs with tackle. I would have thought Orcs with dodge would have made more sense?? Not criticising, just questioning the fluff..