Pro Elves Skillchoice for res. 105TR

Killjoy · Post by **Killjoy** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:25 am

I'd like to use Pro Elves for a 4 game TR105 tourney. 6 Skills or 4 Skills and a double to give away. Lineup is clear, skills not.

2 ReRolls
1 Cheerleader & 1 Assistant

Blitzer (Dodge)
Blitzer (Dodge/Frenzy)
Thrower
Catcher (Dump-Off)
Catcher (Sure Hands)
Catcher (Block)
Catcher (Block)
Lineman
Lineman
Lineman
Lineman

That's an idea. Having kick would be great though or a second dump-off or Leader. I have never played (any) Elves at a tourney, so I'm not quite sure. Help is very welcome.

I could also drop a catcher for a Lino and a ReRoll.

?

Johnny KTOU · Post by **Johnny KTOU** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:04 am

Kick is a must. When you defend, if you let your opponent make his cage, you're gonna have a long day... You have to prevent this, and kick helps, a lot...

I would have taken dodge on the catchers instead of block, it gives them more mobility on offense as scorers and helps you getting in a loose cage on defense. Wrestle is good as well on a catcher if you have the chance to blitz the ball carrier. Maybe strip ball on another catcher ?

If I were you, I'd drop a catcher and buy two lineelves or one lineelf and a reroll. 11 players no apoth is gonna be tough... And another reroll would help a lot: you dodge on 2+, but you dodge a lot !

spubbbba · Post by **spubbbba** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:23 am

I agree with Johnny KTOU, dodge is great on at least some of the catchers. I'm not sure if Dump off is worth it, you don't want your plan to revolve around your AV7 catcher getting hit if at all possible, and it's a double anyway.

I'd suggest leader as 1st skill, that way you have 3 RR's and the thrower should be staying well out of the way and hopefully play all game.

Frenzy isn't that great on the blitzer and might might well get you in trouble with no guard on the team. tackle or strip ball are both worthwile choices as not too many teams have access to start with sure hands or take it at low TR.

SillySod · Post by **SillySod** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:06 am

How about....

Blitzer (tackle) - 110k
Blitzer (frenzy) - 110k
Thrower (leader) - 70k
Catcher (strip ball) - 100k
Lineman (kick) - 60k
Lineman - (wrestle) 60k
Lineman - 60k
Lineman - 60k
Lineman - 60k
Lineman - 60k
Lineman - 60k
Eldril Sidewinder - 170k

1 RR, 2FF - 70k

I know you said your roster was fixed but I thought it might be worth looking at alternative rosters to make sure you're happy with the one you've got. This one gives you an extra player and some super-bonus catcher skills (Eldril) at the expense of two catchers and a re-roll. The skills I've chosen are all enhanced by Eldrils hypnogaze... effectively three specialised blitzers for defence with a kicker to help spread your opponent thin where the ball is. Surehands isnt a bad choice for a catcher but you can probably live without it. If you do go for the four catchers then I wouldnt double up any skills. Frenzy is nice but probably less useful than you'd hope without hypnogaze to help you pull some tricks.

Killjoy · Post by **Killjoy** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:28 am

Thank you all for the advice. I didnt realise that Dump-off is a double. I have always done well with Frenzy. I admit that this was with orcs, but isnt he still tough enough and just helps in every game, whilst Tackle can be useless in all games when you go against dwarfs and orcs only? That is still my biggest issue with Tackle.

Thinking about how often I'll dodge, hand-off and quick pass I'll burn my Rerolls quickly. 3 Catchers are enough, you're right. For know I go with the extra Reroll instead of the extra player. 4 Rerolls!

2 Blitzers (Dodge & Frenzy) - Maybe Tackle Instead Frenzy or Dodge. Having a SS Blodger is almost too tempting though.
3 Catchers (Dodge & Wrestle) - Maybe Strip Ball for Dodge
1 Thrower (Leader)
5 Lineman (Kick)
3 RR, 1 FF

However, we can take Starplayers. So I have to think about the Sidewinder option. Thanks for the hint Silly Sod. Your Cockerel and skills look like hell for any other quick team. Pretty much every defense skill you can have is there, plus the Gaze. Against bashing teams I'm not sure, but I guess in the end most depends on the kick and hoping your players dont die like flies. And you do have an extra player just in case. hmmm...? Looks tasty.

You guys gave me a lot to think about. That's brilliant. Thanks

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:54 pm

I'd do something totally different with skills.

Catcher: Dodge
Catcher: Dodge
Lineman: SS
Lineman: SS
Lineman: SS
Lineman: Kick

5x SS makes forward progress end two squares inside the line, so you're always in scoring position.

miko · Post by **miko** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:28 am

And after turn one 3 of your 5 side steppers (lineman) are dead.

5 times dodge (Blitzer and catcher) and a kicker, maybe the 4th catcher I would think about

SillySod · Post by **SillySod** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:52 am

miko wrote:And after turn one 3 of your 5 side steppers (lineman) are dead.

5 times dodge (Blitzer and catcher) and a kicker, maybe the 4th catcher I would think about

Dodge is almost certainly the best skill you can choose..... until you run into dwarfs. You want to be careful not to neglect blitzing skills too.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:49 pm

miko wrote:And after turn one 3 of your 5 side steppers (lineman) are dead.

5 times dodge (Blitzer and catcher) and a kicker, maybe the 4th catcher I would think about

When a chain-block is threatened, SS is just as good as Dodge for saving lives. Two 11/36 blocks yield a 671/1296 to knock down; 5/9, by contrast, is 720/1296. Two 5/9 blocks yields 65/81 (better than 80%) to knock down, as opposed to a single 3/4 block. So SS is a tad better if facing chainblocks from a Block player, and not quite as good if facing chainblocks from a non-Block player. So SS to protect the d-line (where the chain-blocks come) is very useful as a lifesaver, especially when one considers that this format will see ZERO Grab. Against agility, back two of them up to inside LB, and your defense becomes the great Nylon Curtain: it flexes, but nothing gets through.

miko · Post by **miko** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:18 pm

SS? Every player with block is a killer for your side steppers.

And your key players are without protection.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:38 pm

A Block player has a 75% chance of knockdown against an SS'er, and a 56% against a Dodger. Two Block players have a 75% against an SS'er, as they can't chain-block him. Against a Dodger, they have to succeed on either of two rolls, making the total chance of failure (4/9)^2 or 16/81, better than an 80% chance of success. On the line of scrimmage, a chain-block is always a threat.

I could see going with 1-2x Dodge or Wrestle instead for the inside LBs... except that you have too many positionals and these guys all have to go to the line. You could use Catchers this way (scary), but if you did, you might want to take Block or Wrestle over Dodge: this lets you protect your Kicker. But I'd definitely want a SS noseguard on a team that gets to start with SS corners. That's awfully tough to game for: breaking in generally means a knockdown and two 8+ rolls on 2d (25/192, less than 15% without Block/MB).

You might also put Dodge on the Blitzers instead of Catchers, if you think Big Guys will be a worry. This will obviate 3d blitzes against your corners, at the expense of a tiny tad of maneuverability (you keep the Dodge skill, but not on the guy who needs it most). Not a recommendation, but an option. No half-measures, though: do it on both Blitzers or not at all.

I tell ya, man. In a world without Grab (like a non-prog 6-skill tourney), SSx5 is sick and broken. Not that I have a lot of tourney experience. But I do have a lot of pre-Grab SS experience, and I always thought it was funny that SF got made a trait (though admittedly it did need the LRB5 nerfing to keep from being cheesy on Catchers...) while the vastly superior SS (from a lineman's perspective) was left untouched until the LRB5. You can protect 4 players, and deny your opponent just about any hope whatsoever of blitzing a hole.

Code: Select all

Against Agility or teams without Tackle
-- -- -- --|-- SS -- SS -- SS --|-- -- -- --
-- Bz -- --|CD -- -- -- -- -- Th|-- -- Bz --
-- -- Ca --|-- LK -- -- -- CD --|-- Ca -- --

Otherwise
-- -- -- --|-- -- SS SS SS -- --|-- -- -- --
-- Bz -- --|LK -- -- -- -- -- Th|-- -- Bz --
-- -- Ca --|-- CD -- -- -- CD --|-- Ca -- --

Or with a Block or Wrestle Catcher instead of Dodge...
-- -- -- --|-- -- SS SS SS -- --|-- -- -- --
-- Bz -- --|C* -- -- -- -- -- Th|-- -- Bz --
-- -- Ca --|-- LK -- -- -- CD --|-- Ca -- --