Pro Elf 100TV +6 skills

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nerdkingdan
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Pro Elf 100TV +6 skills

Post by nerdkingdan »

I'm just wondering what a pro elf team at 100TV +6 skills would look like. Zlurpee bowl.

I have been collecting 2nd edition models over the last year and I'm wondering if pro-elf is a good tournament team and what it has in it. I have been collecting the models cause I wanted them and now that I'm getting close to having enough to play them, I'm wondering how they are set up in a tournament.

I have not played with the team yet just wondering, I've played against it a few times in leagues and most the coaches ended up retiring their pro elfs in disgust, so I have no idea how it should be played.

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Grumbledook
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Post by Grumbledook »

they can be a tricky team to play but they are very hard to stop scoring

kick wrestle leap would be some useful skills to take

diving tackle can make the blitzers annoying

lack of dodge could be an issue though, so loading up on lots of dodge can work instead

don't think I've ever played against pro elves though in a tournament and I've not personally used them, so perhaps others can offer more insight

perhaps look to getting some practice games in with different skill set ups

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Post by PubBowler »

If it's normal skills then Frenzy is the best choice for the Blitzers (Well certainly one anyways).

If you're got a double then Guard & Side Step is good combo.

Wrestle on the Catchers & a KIck Lino are also good bets.

I'd consider Leader on a 70k Thrower to boost your rerolls while keeping a reserve.

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Post by irlandes »

if you want to make it effective, then kick + 5 dodges will be the best option

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Post by mattgslater »

2 Side Step Blitzers are great for holding the wide zones. Get Side Step on at least one lineman, and you'll hold the middle too! That makes the field half-depth, and much easier for you to score on defense.

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What is Nuffle's view? Through a window, two-by-three. He peers through snake eyes.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
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Post by SorroW »

irlandes wrote:if you want to make it effective, then kick + 5 dodges will be the best option
Sounds like really good advice! But a bit boring, I would get kick, and sidestep on two lineelfs. And Dodge on the Blitzers and the Catchers.

How many of those will you have? Is that 6 skills then.
Otherwise I would think about giving my thrower Safe Throw. I have gotten that on my throwers a few times and never regretted it. (Never been to a tournament so not sure how different the games there are.) Since the catcher will get loads of attention and you want to be able to get the ball to them regardless.

Just some food for thought.

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Post by ulvardar »

I would use:

* Kick on lineman
* Leader on thrower
* Leap on a blitzer
* Dodge on 2 catchers
* Frenzy/dodge/strip ball in the other blitzer


Maybe just 1 catcher with dodge, and the other with strip ball/block to attack the ball carrier before arriving to the cage (remember, you have kick).


My 2 cents.

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Post by PubBowler »

irlandes wrote:if you want to make it effective, then kick + 5 dodges will be the best option
Not convinced:

Very vulnerable to Dwarfs, Chaos Dwarfs and Norse.
No extra offensive capability.
Lack of consideration of Leader as a cost effective option.

It's also not a skill set that I've seen used at the NAF tournies I've been to.

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Post by ulvardar »

irlandes wrote:if you want to make it effective, then kick + 5 dodges will be the best option
Effective for what? Defence? Ball recovery?

Not extra attack or defence skills. And nearly every undead/norse/orc usually has 1-2 tackles. With 6 skills, even humans, dark elves and skavens can deploy a tackle player. So not really worthy. And not really funny to play, at least for me.

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Post by ulvardar »

SorroW wrote:and sidestep on two lineelfs.

Don't waste skills on linemen elves. They are not supposed to be hit, you should try do dodge them if possible, so if you are going to avoid being hit, a skill that only works when hit is not the way to go.

Save the skills for catchers and blitzers. And leader for thrower, of course. Just put kick in a lino if you want (remember to put him out of harm).


Good luck

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Post by Joemanji »

6 x Side Step. Best skill in the game. :wink:

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Post by mattgslater »

You just need one Side Step lino, to man the nose. There's no percentage gaming around Grab in this low-skill format, so 3x SS will do the trick. You start with two, right? The Blitzers seal off the wide zones and the SS lino on the line falls back to maintain the seal. Then take a Kicker, skills of choice on the Blitzers, etc. as you would otherwise.

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What is Nuffle's view? Through a window, two-by-three. He peers through snake eyes.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
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Post by ulvardar »

I can't agree. With no block, there's a 50% you use SS to choose where do you are going to land bleeding...

Elven linos are not to be hit. They should dodge and lend assists to hitters. But... i suppose you have had success with the SS lino.

Anyway, good luck.

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mattgslater
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Post by mattgslater »

ulvardar wrote:I can't agree. With no block, there's a 50% you use SS to choose where do you are going to land bleeding...

Elven linos are not to be hit. They should dodge and lend assists to hitters. But... i suppose you have had success with the SS lino.

Anyway, good luck.
3 guys have to line up on the LOS. C'est la vie. You can't prevent it. Heck, you have to line up every time you score, so the better your odds of winning, the more often you line up on the LOS.

And it's not 50/50. It's 5/12 to break armor. With SS you can use him to jam up the square he falls in if he's stunned, which is 7/12 of the armor breaks. 5/12 to break armor x 5/12 to KO or Cas = 25/144 to remove from pitch = 119/144 not to remove from pitch. And that's assuming he's knocked down, which is probably not better than 75% (2d with Block, better than 3d without Block). 75% of 25/144 is 75/576 to take out, vs. 501 against. Not something you want to hang a game on.

36 perms on a block. Assume attacker has Block.
11 knockdown and push. Without SS, the player has no value. With SS, assuming there's no MB involved, the player can still jam up a square 119 times out of 144 (10 cas, 15 KOs, 35 stuns, 84 nothing).
9 knockdown, and push unless player has Dodge (in that case, this represents "both down"). See above.
7 knockdown in square, unless player has Block or Dodge. This is better than getting pushed, as it doesn't allow a follow.
8 push down the line, to get blocked again... unless the player has SS. If the player has Block, then it's 12 perms, rather than 8, and if the player has Dodge, it's 15 perms.
3 nothing, if the player has Block.
1 skull and probable TRR.

Dodge is good 7 times to turn a knockdown into a push, but a push probably just represents a burned action, as he'll most likely get blocked down the line and hit again.

Block is good 4 times to turn a knockdown into a push, and 3 times to turn a knockdown into nothing. The 4 knockdowns-into-pushes really represent burned actions on the opponent's line, but don't spare your guy and indeed can open up more chainblocks. The 3 knockdowns-into-nothing are similar, but a little better as the player is usually only susceptible to one more block.

Side Step helps 20 times by ensuring that your net maintains its form (well, 119/144 chance), and 8 more times by keeping your player on his feet and maintaining your net.

On the LOS, when it comes to protecting your players, it's just about exactly a wash between Block, Dodge, Side Step and saving yourself a skill, with maybe a slight efficiency advantage for the other two. When it comes to protecting your defensive structure, however, Side Step is a clear winner. Moreover, you can protect your defensive structure with just one SS'er, with 501/576 chance of success, minimizing the requisite skill investment. That's more important than the occasional free RR on a dodge attempt, and while I'm not convinced that it's better than the extra knockdowns from Block in any categorical sense, I am pretty certain situationally. Especially as Block is of very limited defensive value when facing non-Block players. And unlike Dodge (which is solid if the attacker doesn't have Block), the counter skill to SS isn't going to be common (or anywhere to be found) in the format. Remember, your nose-guard will get hit by a player of your opponent's choice, not yours.

Reason: ''
What is Nuffle's view? Through a window, two-by-three. He peers through snake eyes.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
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nerdkingdan
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Post by nerdkingdan »

Interesting...

However doesn't the skills question need to take in consideration what players/rerolls you buy?

One suggestion I had found was

2 Blitzers
10 linemen
3 rerolls
3 ff/cheer/coach.

I had though an interesting option would be

2 Blitzers
2 throwers
8 Linemen
3 rerolls
1 FF/chear/coach

Both of these give you 12 elves, something hard to do with the other elf teams.

but its low on positional players and misses the catchers all together.


The leader skill on a thrower for 10,000 more than a lineman is a great idea, and you could lower the reroll total and still have 3 rerolls.

My thought after reading all this and thinking about things.

2 Blitzers
2 throwers
1 Catcher
7 Linemen
2 rerolls
2 FF/chear/coach

Leader on thrower, leap on Blitzers, 2 wrestle lineman, dodge on catcher.

EDIT: still processing adding more side step, but this team will have 2. I also can't help but think that blodge blitzers with sidestep should be considered, maybe even over leap.

Not sure though.

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