Leap on a Dark Elf Assassin : gimmick or serious option?

[Joemanji]

This is for tournaments only.

I seem to remember Don Vito taking Leap on his Dark Elf Assassin at Albabowl. I know he did it just for laughs, but actually it seems like it might be a viable tactic.

To clarify: the idea is to leap into the cage and Stab the ball carrier.

The basic idea would not be to just go leaping in at the first opportunity, but instead wait for the right moment, threatening the leap to tie in your opponent. It also has value as a last ditch effort.

Pros
* Stab can't cause a turnover, so if you make the leap its a free shot on the ball carrier.
* Stab isn't affected by assists, so you don't need to commit players to negate them.
* Most teams carry the ball with their lowest AV players : even Orcs and Dwarfs use AV8 players.
* The chances of success cannot be reduced by your opponent having Block/Dodge/Guard/Sure Hands unlike players who leap then block (Wardancers, Slann etc.)
* Even if the Stab fails you still have a player with Shadowing next to the opposing ball carrier.

Cons
* It's not that likely to work.
* If he fails the leap he'll likely get injured (and cause a turnover).
* If he passes the leap he's still an AV7 player with no skills and is likely to get smashed.
* At 90K including him means leaving out something more reliable.
* Some teams can choose to carry the ball with a higher AV player to lower the chances of Stab working (though this is a small victory in that they probably won't have Sure Hands).

Here's a comparison with a Wardancer (including the leap roll). I've not taken Strip Ball into account (assume Sure Hands). I've also assumed a ST3 ball carrier. No re-rolls factored.

Code: Select all

Ball Carrier       Assas     Wardr
AV7, no skills      28%       33%
AV7, Block          28%       22%
AV7, Blodge         28%       11%
AV8, no skills      19%       33%
AV8, Block          19%       22%
AV8, Blodge         19%       11%

Then factoring in Guard so the Wardancer would have to make a half dice block:

Code: Select all

Ball Carrier       Assas     Wardr
AV7, no skills      28%       17%
AV7, Block          28%        7%
AV7, Blodge         28%        2%
AV8, no skills      19%       17%
AV8, Block          19%        7%
AV8, Blodge         19%        2%

[Grumbledook]

can work but it is a gamble

there are a lot of higher av teams about, dark elves are a reroll light team

and as you said he will get twatted anyway

certainly wouldn't bother in a league, though you said this for tournaments, he who dares!

[mattgslater]

Sounds tricky. I'd not be tempted to do it unless it was a very high-value, skill-heavy format. Then go right ahead.

[SillySod]

The cost of a skill is what puts me off. Plus tournament dark elves really cant afford the re-rolls to support that kind of thing.

A better alternative might be to purchase Eldril and hypnogaze your stab guy into the cage.

[Smeborg]

I have not played DEs in a tournament (yet), however, I would consider Leaping Assassins to be an entertaining, albeit rather sporting, gimmick.

Asassins are highly asymetric player-types, since they work well against AV7, and poorly against AV9. They also come with a high price tag, no protection, and lowish MA.

If you take a couple of Witch Elves with Wrestle (which is what I would take in a tourney), you have excellent means to down ball carriers, without needing to resort to a leaping Assassin.

Another point against leaping Assassins is that you are likely to blow your re-rolls making leaps. DEs are normally short of re-rolls in a tourney due to the high cost of the players.

However, having said all that, if you know for certain that you will be facing a lot of AV7 opponents in a particular tourney, then a case can be made for taking a pair of Assassins. However, even in this case, it seems to me that there are better skills for them than Leap (for example Sidestep, or Jump Up, or Dodge).

Hope this helps.

[Joemanji]

Obviously it would depend on the exact format skills are given out. But in tournaments where weaker skills cost less, it might be worth a punt. You'd also want all your skills up front, as there would be no point carrying the Assassin until game 5 when you could afford to give him Leap.

I would also add that were I to use this, I don't think I'd be rerolling Leaps unless I had as many RRs as turns. I'd organise my defence then see it as a free 3+ shot to nothing. If the leap fails, so be it - there's no point trying to save the Assassin from an AV roll as he's almost certainly going to be knocked down in your opponent's turn anyway (unlike a blodging wardancer).

[Carnis]

How about instead of the gimmick leaping DE assassin who is 66% likely to get to try get a LEAPING CHAINSAW OF DEATH instead!

4+ to get the leap right, then you get a AV+3 on the ballcarry .

Goblins are also not a reroll light team, so its more like a 75% chance to get in, 83% chance to get the chain saw rolling and 58-83% chance of passing AV (AV7-9).

So vs AV7 blodger, you get AT LEAST a 51,66% chance of stunning the ballcarrier!

[Grumbledook]

carnis > joemanji

hehe i like it

[Smeborg]

Great tourney idea, Carnis. Keep up the good work.

[Jeremiah Kool]

Another con is you can´t reroll the Stab attempt (if the Leap works). A Wardancer can reroll his leaping Blitz.

[purdindas]

It's just not effective enough to be worth it. Just say NO!

[Smeborg]

Joemanji - I don't want to stop you playing Assassins in a tourney. Far from it - I think it's a genuinely sporting idea, and I may well try it myself in the near future. But I don't think Leap is the way to go. Some further thoughts:

- In leagues, Assassins skill up slowly, and are lucky to get to their second skill before they get "twatted" (as Grum eloquently puts it). The first skill is all-important (because it may be their last). So league development strategy for Assassins may (for once) be a good guide to tournament skill choice. And I have not seen any arguments put forward for Leap in leagues (yet).

- For the first skill choice, I believe it is best to re-inforce what Assassins already do well. So I would suggest it is a choice between Sidestep (to re-inforce Shadowing) or Jump Up (to maximise the use of Stab).

- For my part, I esteem stabbers highly. I used to think that Sidestep was best (because it works well on Star stabbers that I have used). But now that I have started playing DEs in a league setting (with 2 Assassins on the roster) I am inclined to prefer Jump Up to Sidestep. Assassins are "quiet" player types, with their typical actions being either a stab (if next to an opponent), standing up (if prone in a tackle zone), or moving (if free) to provide an assist or to mark an opposing player (like a Lineman, but better because of Shadowing). Jump Up maximises their stabs, and increases their movement if unmarked. I have, however, seen Sidestep used very effectively in a league setting, especially where both Assassins have it (to mark slow ball carriers, typically).

- Assassins are highly emotive targets. This is hugely valuable in a tourney, as opponents will waste actions against them (typically a blitz which could have been better used, or a move to assist a block on an Assassin, which again could have been better used). These positional errors can easily hand the game to you.

- I guess the key to using Assassins in a tourney would be how well you can deploy them against the AV9 teams (Orcs and Dwarfs, in particular, are popular tournament sides). I think they work OK, because AV9 rosters are often short (typically 12 players, sometimes 11). Dwarfs or Orcs starting a drive with 9 or 10 players is a joy to behold (if you are on the other side of the table). But for this to work, I think you must have 2 Assassins. 1 will not cut the mustard. And the higher the AV, the more you need to maximise the use of Stab - hence my idea to take Jump Up.

Hope this helps.

[Ironjaw]

Leap on a Dark Elf Assassin : gimmick or serious option?

This is easy to resolve Joe- just ask Stick.

If he'd take it to a tournament, it's definately a gimmick...

[Grogmir]

I almost, almost clicked serious suggestion but in the end I had to go with Gimmick.

On an Assasin I can see it being, Fun and useful - but In the end I had to go gimmick.

Why? Cause the Assasin as a whole is just a Gimmick (Bias showing now;)) There is no place for the As on a DE (tourni) team therefore no change to give them Leap.

You normally only have 11 players, so Have more AV7 and wasting a skill on him just isn't an option.

Give Dodge to your Blitzers and Block/Wrestle to your WEs and your set imo.

[mattgslater]

If I ever got an Assassin to 3 skills, Leap would be #3 for sure. That's evil! It's just not worth a tournament skill selection. The old Horkon was a better deal than the old Moranion, that's for sure!