TV100 Norse + 6 skills

[pfooti]

Like a few other people in this forum, I'm going to be in a BB tournament sometime soon. I'm fairly sure I'd like to play Norse (although I'm thinking about Nurgle as well), mainly because I have some cool figs I want to play.

The main rules: TV100, +6 regular skills, no more than 1 skill per player, no more than 2 copies of any given skill.

I'm considering two different rosters.

• 6 line, 2 runner, 2 blitzer, 2 ulf, 2 TRR
• 5 line, 1 runner, 2 blitzer, 2 ulf, 1 snowtroll, 2 TRR

The first lineup has 12 players. The second has a troll. I'm torn on that setup to start. While I'd like to have a spare dude, with the team construction rules mean the other coaches won't really have spare players either. AV7 is cruddy on that front, but 5 frenzy and a claw/mighty blow snowtroll means there will be a lot of crowdsurfs and regular armor breaks. I can tweak the first roster as well by cutting a line and converting a runner to a passer to be an 11-man lineup with 3 TRR and Leader as the skill on the passer, making for better turnover protection, but I feel like that's not playing to the norse strengths.

Worth noting that I find the disturbing presence on the snowtroll to be a really tactically interesting skill, provided I can bring it to bear on my opponents. It makes norse even stronger against skill/ag teams, and can possibly be the final straw that keeps the cager teams from making that final handoff/run into the endzone. I'm actually more interested in getting DP on the field than yet another frenzy high-st character, especially given the liability that loner, frenzy and no block skill can be.

With 6 skills to spend, I think some make perfect sense. Block on the ulfs, MB on the troll, if present. Either sure hands or dodge on a runner (SH seems like a clutch skill, but I could see dodge having more uses). I'm somewhat torn about skills on the blitzers. Guard can be pretty useful, as can mighty blow. Stand firm could be really useful on a dedicated sideline blitzer (although the block/st4 ulfs probably make better sideline blitzers).

My overall strategy is to play an aggressive defense, kicking off to start the game if given the choice, establish a lot of blocks and multi-push crowdsurfs, and try to get into the second half with a reasonable man advantage. Against AV9 teams, the troll needs to play a lot bigger role, but crowdsurfs keep the pitch clear too. My test matches so far have shown me the real danger of ending my turn with a lot of my guys in tacklezones though- having free blocks against my AV7 guys is problematic, even when there's block on all my guys.

Anyway, any kind of advice or pointing out flaws in my thinking are welcome.

[armydave]

I took Norse to the GT and the Exiles Bowl this year and my team was fairly similar to your second one. But i've dropped one of the Ulf's for a lineman and a third reroll. I used to always take your second option but i think putting three skills on the troll and ulf's first means that you're struggling to get other useful skills early in the tournament. And I think you need that extras reroll.

Skll wise i go -

1. Mighty Blow on the Snow Troll. This is awesome with Claws.
2. Wrestle on the Ulf. With this skill he makes a great 'safety' style player. With S4 and Frenzy he has a good chance of taking
down ball carriers with Block. Also a very useful defensive skill.
3. Tackle on one Berserker. See above but more S2 players have dodge than block so he can pick on little guys (catchers,
goblins, skinks, halflings, gutter runners etc).
4. Mighty Blow on other Berserker. I think you need numerical advantage with Norse, and i just like causing carnage.
5. Dodge on Runner. MV7 Blodger. Nuff said.
6. Wrestle or Tackle on a lineman. If you pick your skills after each game you can have a sneaky peak around you have an
educated guess as to what will be of most use. If you pick all skills before start of tournament i usually go with another tackle.

I play very aggressive with this team doing as much damage as i can early using the snow troll to batter high armour players while the berserkers pick on lighter, faster players and the Ulf trouble shoots.

[Joemanji]

An 11 man Norse roster will not end well.

[Thadrin]

Agreed with Joe.

Played 1000k at Gencon this year. finished 6th of 40 or so with (iirc):
Troll 140
Ulf 110
Runner 90
Thrower 70
8 Line 400
3 rerolls 180
1 FF 10

That's twelve players with three rerolls. I wouldn't want to play Norse with less of either.

Skills were Block on the Ulf, Tackle on a Lineman, Dodge on my Runner, Sure Hands on my thrower and a double to give the Troll Block. If it's just straight six then give the Troll MB and consider a second tackler, or possibly a Kicker.

The Thrower really was because I had 30k left over after I'd bought everything that would fit and thought Pass may prove handier than an AC and a CL (can't remember if I was right).
You COULD use that 20k to change the runner to a second Ulf, who would of course be given Block. That's some scary hitting there. I like having the extra speed and potential Blodge though. Dauntless is also occasionally useful.

Another potential idea is to drop a reroll, keeping the Thrower and taking advantage of his access to the Leader skill. That extra 60 changes a Lineman to an Ulfwerener for example.
That would completely alter your skill selections though. I think Sure Hands on the team somewhere is almost essential (just my opinion of course).

[Warpstone]

Agreed with Joe.
If it's just straight six then give the Troll MB and consider a second tackler, or possibly a Kicker.

Thadrin, how high up the priority list is kick for a Norse team? Is it a way to keep your team alive by kicking close to midfield and pressuring the ball? Or is it to buy you time to win midfield by kicking it deep?

[Joemanji]

I find Kick redundant on most teams in tournaments. With skills so limited, you might as well have something you'll use every turn, like Block or Dodge. You might only use Kick once, and if it drifts back into the centre or doesn't scatter much it can be completely wasted.

Joe

[pfooti]

Hmm. Does mentioning that it's a resurrection format tournament change the player count priorities at all? Sorry I forgot to say that in the first place. But I don't have to worry about going into round 2 down four players on death/MNG. Conversely, I don't get to buy anything or skill-up. It's just three rounds of playing the same roster each time. That's really the only reason I'm considering starting with 11 dudes- having the yeti could be a big bonus there, provided I don't end up down 6 dudes at the half.

The thinking behind the roster (besides having a set of the Black Widows I want an excuse to paint) is that if I free my Norse from worrying about next game's roster, I can be fairly aggressive in pursuing casualties and such. The team should perform pretty well against other hands/skill teams with a relatively fast defense and high block/crowdsurf rate. Against bashy teams, I can do what everybody else does- screen the cage and slow things down enough to keep them from scoring or force a turnover. All the frenzy and jump up on the team means that once the cage starts to get broken, it stays broken. I can't keep the other guy from scoring once (who do you think we are, Nurgle?) but I can probably keep them from scoring twice, if Nuffle is with me.

I think I could probably get Kick on my non-troll roster (blockx2 ulf, sure hands or dodge on a runner, then maybe MBx2 on blitzers, and kick on a spare guy), but I've had the same experience with that skill. It works very well when it does work and you get to pin the ball way back (or start it very close to the front and hope for a blitz), but you only get to even try to use the skill two or three times a game, and it is often moot for at least one of those kicks. And with my luck, it's usually a bad kick - scatters directly to the sidelines - touchback with half of my clever kick placements anyway. Of course, the more I look at the non-troll roster, the more I think I'd rather start with a catcher / passer combo, and put Leader on the passer for the extra TRR.

[Joemanji]

Hmm. Does mentioning that it's a resurrection format tournament change the player count priorities at all? Sorry I forgot to say that in the first place. But I don't have to worry about going into round 2 down four players on death/MNG... That's really the only reason I'm considering starting with 11 dudes- having the yeti could be a big bonus there, provided I don't end up down 6 dudes at the half.

That is exactly what will happen in many, if not most of your games. Even starting with 9 is bad news if you are kicking, as you ca quite easily lose 2 on the LoS. Norse don't have much ability to run away, so if you go men down, you very soon go more men down....

I would take:

2 Ulfs (2 Guard)
1 Berseker (Guard)
1 Runner (Dodge)
1 Thrower (Leader)
8 Linemen (1 Tackle)
2 RRs
1 Coach

[Warpstone]

I find Kick redundant on most teams in tournaments. With skills so limited, you might as well have something you'll use every turn, like Block or Dodge. You might only use Kick once, and if it drifts back into the centre or doesn't scatter much it can be completely wasted.

Joe

I agree, my hunch is that I'd normally only take it with high AG and MA teams that need to hit quickly on the counterattack. But I guess Norse is one of the few teams that is easily stocked with a full complement of block and as much dodge as allowed by your rules.

I suppose something key like tackle wins out in the end over kick, but I just wonder if maybe one of the Norse strategies is to emphasize positioning rather than just slug it out from turn 1. If so, maybe kick can make a bigger difference than I thought?

[Joemanji]

... but I just wonder if maybe one of the Norse strategies is to emphasize positioning rather than just slug it out from turn 1. If so, maybe kick can make a bigger difference than I thought?

From what I've seen, Norse have the least sophisticated strategy of all ... get stuck in, hit things. They can't afford to trade blows in dribs and drabs, as AV7 will take its toll. They will take damage anyway, so they need to get stuck in and try to buy turnover ball with bodies.

[pfooti]

2 Ulfs (2 Guard)
1 Berseker (Guard)
1 Runner (Dodge)
1 Thrower (Leader)
8 Linemen (1 Tackle)
2 RRs
1 Coach

Really? You'd put guard on the Ulfs? I'm torn on that front- having guard will help a lot, and putting guard on a ST4 piece means it is harder to just knock the guard down first, but I'm not wild about having a Frenzy player without block, on a 2 TRR team. I might be overestimating the norse ability to hit, I suppose. What about trading the runner/dodge for another guard berserker? While I like the runner statline (especially in a league), I could just field a 13-lady roster with 2 ulf, 2 berserker, 1 passer (leader), 8 lino. I don't see the passer doing much except donating his reroll to the cause and maybe, maybe, maybe making a desperation throw. Which is kind of odd- I'm spending 20k and a skill choice on a 60k reroll. But the reroll seems to be the way to go, for sure.

[Joemanji]

You have 9 other players with Block. More than any other team except Dwarfs. You can afford not to have Block on the Ulfs IMO. And it's 3 RRs with Leader. Norse don't have that many good skill picks for linemen, so the Thrower+Leader route is optimal.

A MA7, Blodge ball carrier is great. But another Beserker with Guard is also very useful.

[Thadrin]

I would only consider kick if I lacked other good ideas. It can be handy/irritating for your opponent.

I like Joe's proposed roster, though being paranoid I'd take block on my Ulfs and trade the tackle for Sure Hands.I'd consider tackle instead of guard on the blitzer, but that's a matter of taste...and whichever you choose ypu find that the other would help more.

[Grumbledook]

I would take:

2 Ulfs (2 Guard)
1 Berseker (Guard)
1 Runner (Dodge)
1 Thrower (Leader)
8 Linemen (1 Tackle)
2 RRs
1 Coach

I would take a cheerleader instead of the coach.

[pfooti]

The tournament rules preclude being able to put guardx3 on the team- you can have no more than 2 copies of any one skill. I do like the lineup, though. In a few fumbbl and tabletop matches I've played to get the hang of norse, I have seen the importance of having a reasonably deep roster. AV7 doesn't last forever, and if you line up short guys, you'll be even shorter soon, even if it's just the 2 perma-stuns you get from people breaking armor over and over and rolling low on the injury table.

On the other hand, given the way I've been playing with the ulfs, I think I need block on them. Not necessarily for the defense (you're right, 9 block players on the pitch is sufficient), but just because I try very hard to get them hitting people all the time, and 2d+frenzy leads to a lot of reroll burning on my rookie norse team. I think of the 6 rerolls I had one match (2 on the team, plus one induced), I burned 4 on a skull/bothdown block roll, and had at least one turnover from the same. I'm not sure if it's nuffle taking a hand or what- in the same match, the elf opponents kept failing their 2+ pickup rolls, so I ended up doing okay. That's an interesting aside about nuffle statistics: no matter what the "official" numbers say, it feels like the 2+ roll with a reroll fails a LOT more than the 5+ insano play.

Anyway, I'm currently sitting at 8 lino (1 with something, either kick, tackle or sure hands), 1 passer (leader), 2 ulfs (block), 1 blitzer (mighty blow, guard or stand firm), and 1 runner (dodge). 2TRR, 1 Fan Factor / AC / CL / Whatever. It's tempting to convert one lino and the leftover 10k into boomer, but having 13 players is the point, not 12.1.