Braaaains please. (1150k res with buyable skills)

[Setomidor]

Hi!

I'm winding myself up for a local 1150k tournament, resurrection. All teams have the option of purchasing up to one skill per player 20k, including doubles for 30k.

I'm thinking undead with something like the following:

Mummy, Block, 150k
Mummy, Block, 150k
Ghoul, 70k
Ghoul, 70k
Ghoul, 70k
Wight, Tackle, 110k
Wight, Tackle, 110k
Zombie, 40k
Zombie, 40k
Zombie, 40k
Zombie, 40k
Zombie, 40k

3 Rerolls, 210k

Totalt: 1140k (so 10k more for a coach, babe, or FF).

What do you think?

//Seto

[Digger Goreman]

Mummy, Block, 150k
Mummy, Block, 150k
Ghoul, Block, 90k
Ghoul, Sure Hands, 90k
Wight, Tackle, 110k
Wight, Tackle, 110k
Zombie, Leader, 70k
Zombie, 40k
Zombie, 40k
Zombie, 40k
Zombie, 40k

3 Rerolls, 210k

Total: 1140k

I'm all for Guard over Tackle on the Wights.... Feel you have to run lean (11 players only) against spam teams (you need as many skills as possible)... and will REALLY appreciate the saving of rerolls (and boost) you get from a sure hands ghoul and leader zombie.... Swapping a zombie, or two, for skeletons would increase your speed....

[MKL]

On such a format I'm tempted to go for a bit of Guard-fest

Mummy, Guard, 140k
Mummy, Guard, 140k
Ghoul, Block, 90k
Ghoul, Sure Hands, 90k
Ghoul, Wrestle, 90k
Wight, Guard, 110k
Wight, Guard, 110k
Zombie, Leader, 70k
Zombie, Guard, 70
Zombie, 40k
Zombie, 40k

2 RR (+Leader), 140k

Total: 1130k

20k for 1Coach+1Cheerleader, or Block on a Zombie.

....just my 2c.

[Smeborg]

Setomidor - I think your shape is good, but how about dropping a RR for more skills:

Mummy - Block
Muimmy - Block
Wight - Guard
Wight - Guard
Ghoul - Sure Hands
Ghoul - Wrestle
Ghoul - Wrestle
Zombie - Kick
Zombie
Zombie
Zombie
Zombie
Zombie
2 Re-rolls

Wrestle is more useful than Tackle in tourneys - it is never wasted. 2 Block Mummies plus 2 Guard Wights will outbash most teams. Kick plus 2 Wrestle Ghouls threatens the ball on defense.

[besters]

No tournament experience of Undead, but I would go with the following:

Mummy, Block, 150k
Mummy, Block, 150k
Ghoul, Block, 90k
Ghoul, Block, 90k
Ghoul, Wrestle 90k
Ghoul, 70k
Wight, 90k
Wight, 90k
Zombie, Leader, 70k
Zombie, 40k
Zombie, 40k
Zombie, 40k
2 Rerolls, 140k

I think a four ghoul set up deserves a mention. Another option would be to remove the skills on the Mummies and add Tackle to the Wights and Block/Wrestle to the final Ghoul.

[Setomidor]

Thanks for the input everyone, very much brains indeed!

Dropping a re-roll for Leader is a really good idea, saves a good bunch of TV right there.

I see what you mean about wrestle, but I'm also a bit worried about having my ghouls lying down after wrestling (for fouls), especially with only 11 players.

The all-guard route is tempting too, but with only 2 re-rolls I would be afraid to throw two-die blocks with the Mummys early on, so I prefer Block on them.

besters four-ghoul list is tempting too, but I'm a bit scared about the (lack of) resilience in unskilled ghouls.

I've come up with another suggestion based on your input:

Mummy - Block, 150k
Mummy - Block, 150k
Wight - Guard, 110k
Wight - Guard, 110k
Ghoul - Sure Hands, 90k
Ghoul - Wrestle, 90k
Skeleton - Dirty Player, 60k
Zombie - Wrestle, 60k
Zombie - Leader, 70k
Zombie, 40k
Zombie, 40k
Zombie, 40k

2 Re-rolls, 140k

12 players, 2 Guards, Sure hands, Leader for third re-roll. This one still got two wrestlers, but one of them is a Zombie instead of a Ghoul to save some TV. Also got a Skeleton with Dirty Player in there for fouling players that are wrestled down. I picture this lineup to get ahead in the number of players on the pitch and most often go for a 2-1 grind.

Comments?

[Setomidor]

Had my first practice game yesterday vs. four-gutter Skaven, and learned that;

• Blodge is a bit of a bitch to handle for this team. The Mummies could sometimes manage a three die blitz on a Gutter, but some poor armour rolls left them on the pitch.
• Two Ghouls are too few. Getting a single one KO'd or Injured (which will happen) kills off a considerable chunk of my offensive capabilities.
• Guardwights are golden
• The DP Skeleton and Wrestle Zombie were not really needed, at least not yesterday.

New experiences call for a new roster;

Mummy - Block, 150k
Mummy, 120k
Wight - Guard, 110k
Wight - Guard, 110k
Ghoul - Sure Hands, 90k
Ghoul - Block, 90k
Ghoul - 70k
Skeleton - Kick, 60k
Zombie - Leader, 70k
Zombie, 60k
Zombie, 40k
Zombie, 40k

2 Re-rolls, 140k

Leaving one Mummy with Block for blitzes and trying to set the other one up for three-die blocks on the LoS should be almost as good as dubble-Block, and for 30k less. Kick and three Ghouls gives me the chance to put some pressure up in defence.

[Smeborg]

Continuing in the same direction, I would be inclined to drop the Leader for Block on a Mummy, and to drop Kick (har, har) for a skill on the 3rd Ghoul. And as I said before, Wrestle is better than Block on a Ghoul, since it helps you to bring down the likes of Gutter Runners (Block does not).

[Setomidor]

You think two RR's are enough? In that case, wouldn't one + leader Zombie save another 40k which could be spent on other skills? Should only be marginally worse with 1+Leader than 2 regular RRs, for 40k less

[Chris]

I think that 3 RR's are needed. Two definatively and while I have games, especially when skilled, that don't need three - for a tourney where you absolutely have to take down the blodge ball carrier you burn re-rolls. And in this environment you are going to face a lot of skilled ball carriers.

I think most peoples instinct would be to skill to bash. I think thats why tourneys tend to say players can't have the same skill combos (so no block or wrestle on everyone).

I think dirty player is an interesting option simply because the format would seem to encourage lean rosters.

It also encourages big guys with block, block dodgers, lots of guard (just imagine the dwarf team with 5 guarders and block or dodge on the runners). That may in turn lead to an outbreak of wrestle.

Getting leader instead of a re-roll is a definate winner.

Your 3 compulsory skills then are mummy block and a leader, though on which model? And two guard on the wights. That leaves you berift of tackle to deal with dodgers which would mean going down the wrestle route for ghouls and I love sure hands as my pick up rolls are awful.

I would reckon on meeting throwers with kick off return possibly and anyway having kick really messes with the enemy freedom to set-up.

I think you are looking at a skilled 11/12 man team (can always raise the dead ) or risking two re-rolls but increasing the squad size.

11 man team could be
14 2 Re-rolls
15 Mummy, Block
15 Mummy, Block
11 Wight, Guard
11 Wight, Guard
9 Ghoul, Wrestle (sweeper)
9 Ghoul, Sure hands
9 Ghoul, Block (ball handler if it looks dangerous and no strip ball leapers about)
7 Zombie, Leader
6 Zombie, Kick
4 ZOmbie
4 ZOmbie
1 FF

Ok, bit fragile but concentrates on skills. I would though if having so many ghouls want a 12 man. I couldn't face with playing with just 1 re-roll and 1 leader, but if you did that is 80k freed up (including the 1 FF) for either a vanila ghoul or a skellie with dirty player and 1 skill for a zombie.

Otherwise something to think about is how this format affects passing, do you need pass block?

[Smeborg]

You think two RR's are enough? In that case, wouldn't one + leader Zombie save another 40k which could be spent on other skills? Should only be marginally worse with 1+Leader than 2 regular RRs, for 40k less

Yes and yes, although I am quite open minded on whether 2 or 3 RR is appropriate in this format.

My experience of tourneys is that once they become skill-rich, RRs start to lose their value (because so many players have Block/Wrestle or RR skills). To give an extreme example, I once played in such a tourney with 1 RR (Nurgle) and came second (I had 5 Block, 2 Wrestle, 2 S-Hands). I would say your tourney format is on the borderline between 2 and 3 RRs for a cheap team such as Undead. How about:

2 Mummies with Block
2 Wights with Guard
3 Ghouls with S-Hands/Wrestle/Wrestle
6 Zombies (1 with Leader, 1 with D-Player)
1 RR

I would consider Block on both Mummies essential. You will encounter lots of Big Guys and the like with Block.

I like the idea of 2 Block Mummies and a D-Player on a 13-player roster. Many tourney rosters are short (e.g. 11 men) - you can take advantage.

Let us know what you choose and how you get on!

[Setomidor]

Tried your lineup (but a DP Skeleton instead of a Zombie) in a practice game yesterday and managed a 2-2 against Skaven. Him rolling Perfect D on the first kick against me and me starting second half rolling Pitch Invasion with him having +2 FAME made it hard to win, but I rolled pretty well for casualties and managed to get ahead in players.

In this particular match I burned my two rerolls really early in the first half, but had both left at the end of the second half (simply because there were only 6 rats on the table).

For this particular match up I found that:

• Blodging Gutters are really annoying without Tackle. I did have wrestle on my Ghouls, but when I caught up with a Gutter headed for the endzone and wrestled him down I did not have enough supporting players nearby to prevent him from simply standing up again, grabbing the ball and score. Probably have to take greater care in keeping my DP Skeleton around as a safety, trying to put the boot in and stun the Gutter long enough to make a difference. Block on the Ghoul wouldn't have helped of course.
• Block on Mummies is good, but at least against Skaven I can often get three-die blocks with them anyway, which is kind of safe. Still, going only with two RRs I need the safety of Block on both.
• I probably didn't foul enough, as only my DP got ejected for fouling. Still had a Zombie in the reserves box at the end of the game which probably would have made more use being ejected.

I think I'll give this roster another go, maybe against a different team to see how it goes. What would you recon is the worst match up for this team?

//Seto

[Smeborg]

I am not sure this conundrum can be easily solved. The Wights are the best candidates for both Guard and Tackle - you can't have both! You probably should have fouled more in this match.

I suggest you playtest with 2 Guard Wights vs. 2 Tackle Wights. Against (say) Wardancers or Slann, you will likely struggle without Guard. Against Dodge teams without Leapers, Tackle may be better. The advantage of Wrestle is very simple, it is good against all teams, whereas Tackle is only good against Dodge. In the example you give, the Gutter Runner may have also had little difficulty against a Block/Tackle player.