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 Post subject: Re: First tourney with Slann (skyte)
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:43 pm 
Experienced
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Posts: 100
Has anyone tried in tournament to play with blitzers, no krox and less catchers? At 1.1M I thought about:
3 Blitzers
2 Catchers
6 Linefrogs
4 RR
1 Apo

I see a lot of the blitzers on FUMBBL these days and was wondering why, blitzers are so pricey!! But the sacrifice of the Kroxigor is compensated by less strength 2 on the pitch and the movement of the blitzers with jump up attracts me the more I play. Obviously, can't play elves anymore, having catchers downfield and passing to them, but most of the time I would want to play a running game anyway.

Thoughts on this?

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 Post subject: Re: First tourney with Slann (skyte)
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:47 am 
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Blitzers need stacked skills, is the main argument against Blitzers in tourney teams. That's why they're so pricey. Four of them with 10-15 skills between them is hard to cope with.

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 Post subject: Re: First tourney with Slann (skyte)
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:36 am 
Legend
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Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Johnny KTOU wrote:
Has anyone tried in tournament to play with blitzers, no krox and less catchers? At 1.1M I thought about:
3 Blitzers
2 Catchers
6 Linefrogs
4 RR
1 Apo

I see a lot of the blitzers on FUMBBL these days and was wondering why, blitzers are so pricey!! But the sacrifice of the Kroxigor is compensated by less strength 2 on the pitch and the movement of the blitzers with jump up attracts me the more I play. Obviously, can't play elves anymore, having catchers downfield and passing to them, but most of the time I would want to play a running game anyway.

Thoughts on this?
I suggest the Catchers are by far the best value players, thus it makes sense to take 4 of them when you can.

All the best.

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 Post subject: Re: First tourney with Slann (skyte)
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:46 pm 
Star Player
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Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:11 pm
Posts: 664
Smeborg wrote:
Johnny KTOU wrote:
Has anyone tried in tournament to play with blitzers, no krox and less catchers? At 1.1M I thought about:
3 Blitzers
2 Catchers
6 Linefrogs
4 RR
1 Apo

I see a lot of the blitzers on FUMBBL these days and was wondering why, blitzers are so pricey!! But the sacrifice of the Kroxigor is compensated by less strength 2 on the pitch and the movement of the blitzers with jump up attracts me the more I play. Obviously, can't play elves anymore, having catchers downfield and passing to them, but most of the time I would want to play a running game anyway.

Thoughts on this?
I suggest the Catchers are by far the best value players, thus it makes sense to take 4 of them when you can.

All the best.


The principle behind the blitzer build is that Blitzers > Catchers at high TV. Most FUMBBL teams aim for a TV of around 1800+, so they need to skill the blitzers. If you take catchers, your catchers will probably score most of your TDs, therefore depriving them from the Blitzers.

In a TT tournament, the catcher build is better than the Blitzer one. If the tournament allows skill stacking, things might be different, but a blitzer needs a ton of different skills to be useful (for example, one mb/po/tackle/block, another wrodge/strip ball, a guard/blodge/ss one).

It's the good ole skills vs stats dilemma. A Blitzer based build is like the High Elves - fragile at low TV, and all those lovely ST 3 players will get smashed off the pitch. Much like Wood Elves, at high TV, the Catcher's ST 2 really starts to tell on what you can do, and their durability. They still make excellent runners/retrievers, but it's questionable whether you need more than 2-3 of them.


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 Post subject: Re: First tourney with Slann (skyte)
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:47 pm 
Experienced
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Posts: 100
Thanks everyone, very helpful. As I said, I haven't actually played in that sort of format with blitzers. My thought behind all this was that also catchers are fantastic players and invaluable when attacking, they still only St2, and all games I've played has been about taking as little casualties as I could to stay competitive; and I was thinking reducing the amount of St2 players would help.

I see 3 main builds at 1.1M in tourny, with :
- first is 4 catchers, 8 line, 5rr, apo
- krox, 4 catchers, 6 line, 4rr, apo
- 3 blitzers, 2 catchers, 6 line, 4rr, apo

The first 2 builds focus the tourney skills on catchers for survivability and mobility as well as on the line for the occasional sack. The second is tougher when the first one plays on mobility, but both still use a lot of St2.

My thought is that replacing some catchers with blitzers would make the roster nearly as tough as the 2nd build (less St2) and as mobile as the 1st (jump up, MA7). Diving tackle is a plus for marking players. Putting skills on blitzers (2 block, 1 wrestle) would be more efficient than on linefrogs (mobility) and we don't have to worry as much about the catcher's survivability as they will be easier to hide. Will have to focus on a running game though, safer overall but not as reliable when forced to go for the 2 turn TD.

As said, I haven't actually tried it, just thinking if it's worth digging a bit more.

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 Post subject: Re: First tourney with Slann (skyte)
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:59 am 
Legend
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Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2002 3:02 am
Posts: 3372
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
This last weekend I attempted to ahem defend my title at the same tourney, same format, same roster:

4 Catchers, 8 Linefrogs, 5 RR, Apoth
Day 1 skills: Guard (Catcher), Dodge (Catcher), Wrestle (Linefrog)
Day 2 skills: Guard (Catcher), Dodge (Catcher), Wrestle (Linefrog)

I ended up coming second, with 4 wins and 2 narrow losses (by 1 TD). TDs: 16-7. CAS: 5-18. The tourney rules were very kind to me, as I picked up points for the narrow wins, and only came second on tie-break, which was on net TDs (highly favourable to Slann). I also won the most TDs award.

GAME 1 VS. NORSE. 2-1 win (CAS: 1-2). Got ground badly in the first half, all asaults on the cage failed, 0-1 down at half-time. Got a TD at the beginning of the second half, then got ground badly again. Running out of players, I got my first successful sack of the caged ball on turn 13 (1 die, no RR). The Norse failed the pick-up, the Slann pulled off a long run of good rolls to score. I then failed 6/6 KO rolls, leaving 6 players with which to defend a 2-turner. I brought down 1 receiver who was in hand-off range, and the pass to the other Receiver failed. One of my luckiest ever tourney wins, a great way to start a tourney.

GAME 2 VS. ORCS. 4-0 win (CAS: 1-2). Very easy win, ended the game early. Sacked the Orc cage multiple times.

GAME 3 VS. ORCS. 5-0 win (CAS: 1-1). Very easy win, ended the game early. Sacked the Orc cage multiple times.

GAME 4 VS. LIZZIES. 1-2 loss (CAS: 0-7). Playing against the eventual winner (he won all his games), things started well when I turned him over to go 1-0 up (GFI and Long Pass without RR). A second assault on the ball (4 dice with a Wrestler) failed, if successful (say 80%) this would likely have given me the win. Then things went pear-shaped as 1 suffered 7 CAS in 4 turns (only 1 with M-Blow), immediately followed by 2 Perfect Defences for the Lizzies. The second of these cost me dear (start of 2nd half) as it contributed to my 6 remaining men failing to score. I got turned over, more players flew into the dugout, I ended the game with 1 player on the pitch, but I kept the game alive until the end, getting 2 sack attempts at the death (both failed). I made a couple of blunders when down on players (I rarely play without mistakes in the 4th game of the day), these may well not have influenced the result, but you never know.

GAME 5 VS LIZZIES. 2-1 win (CAS: 0-2). Lizzies again! This time things went better, I got a turnover TD plus another regulation TD. My opponent then ground me down, but settled for the narrow loss (1 point) rather than risking a 3-1 loss (no points).

GAME 6 VS. ORCS. 2-3 loss (CAS: 1-5). Well-coached Orcs. A game of 2 halves. In the first half, every Leap involving the ball failed (whether a sack attempt, or an attempt to move the ball). Unsurprisingly this left me 0-2 down at half-time. Then things improved, after an elegant offensive TD, I got a defensive drive where everything worked, my opponent was forced to take risks, he made a hand-off which failed, I got the TD to level the score at 2-2. A tense last drive ensued, I was defending with a handful of players, all was going well when on turn 16 I took a Blitz with a Wrestle Linefrog, the Leap worked, but I rolled double skulls (no RR left). Sadly this conceded the losing TD (several players had still to move), but it was a lovely exciting end to the tourney. I was a little surprised to get 2nd place, the results at the other tables must have all gone my way.

For me this confirms the excellence of the Slann in this format. To lose it took not just bad dice, but extreme runs of bad dice (7 CAS in 4 turns in one case, in the other case every Leap that mattered failed for a whole half). Slann are quite relaxing to play once you get the hang of them, they are good for improving risk assessment in terms of move order. Sometimes you get an assault on a cage which has chess-puzzle-like difficulty. These can be rather entertaining.

Since I have ahem failed to defend my title, I can now retire the Slann from this tourney. Next year I may take Dark Elves, or perhaps Halflings if the stunty madness strikes.

All the best.

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 Post subject: Re: First tourney with Slann (skyte)
 Post Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 6:56 pm 
Rookie
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Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:28 pm
Posts: 17
Alrighty then,

I am headed to a tourney soon, 1.1 mil with a 6 reg and 1 doub skill package. You can't take more than one skill on a player, and no more than two of the same skill on the team. I want the Slann to work for me, but I am still not convinced that I should take them over a Dwarf team or my human team. I was leaning towards the following roster, until I read your post.

1x Krox (Double - Block)
3x Catcher (Sure Hands on one, Dodge on a second)
2x Blitzer (Guard on one, and Wrestle on the other)
5x Linefrog (One with Block, one with Kick)
4 RR
No Apo

With the blitzer getting Guard on a normal skill, the leap is trickier, but I am worried about getting my catcher bashed while in the cage. The blitzers are a little more resilient and have strength 3 and the Jump Up with Diving Tackle are both very useful to have close by if the ball doesn't pop. The Krox should also be able to tie up a few guys, I am hoping.

After reading your initial team post though, I am wondering about the need for the second blitzer. The ultimate question is to Krox or not....

No Krox :-(
4 Catchers (guard, dodge, dodge)
1 Blitzer (guard)
7 Linefrogs (Wrestle, Wrestle, Kick)
4 RR
1 Apo (or a 5th reroll and no Apo)

OR

Krox (Spend a double, get block. No double, get nothing)
3 Catchers (dodge, dodge, sure hands/guard - if I don't get a skilled Krox)
1 Blitzer (Guard)
6 Linemen (Kick, Wrestle, and another Wrestler if I don't take a skilled Krox)
4 RR
1 Apo (or a 5th Reroll and no Apo)

So, I need some advice.
Is sure hands worth it to guard against strip ball and provide a little cushion against having fewer rerolls?
Please talk me off of the Krox ledge. Convince me not to use him. I feel like he is much more reliable with block, but am I hedging my bets here? If the point is to pop to ball early and often with my guarding leapers while playing more of a finesse game, then do I need any muscle at all?


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 Post subject: Re: First tourney with Slann (skyte)
 Post Posted: Wed May 20, 2015 9:54 pm 
Legend
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Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2002 3:02 am
Posts: 3372
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
In sort of reply to your questions, here is what I would take under that ruleset:

4 Catchers (Guard/Dodge/Dodge/Dodge)
8 Linos (Wrestle/Wrestle/Wrestle)
5 Re-rolls
Apoth

The only question for me would be whether to find a way to take 1 Strip Ball player.

I wouldn't recommend Sure Hands on a Catcher, Dodge is a much more useful skill.

Hope that helps.

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 Post subject: Re: First tourney with Slann (skyte)
 Post Posted: Wed May 20, 2015 10:56 pm 
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It does answer some of the questions I have. However, I am not allowed to take more than two of the same skill. So, no three dodges or three wrestlers. I suppose that leaves room for a strip-ball linemen though.

So, if you can't put dodge on your fourth catcher, what would you pick instead?


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 Post subject: Re: First tourney with Slann (skyte)
 Post Posted: Thu May 21, 2015 1:01 pm 
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Posts: 761
Thespian wrote:
It does answer some of the questions I have. However, I am not allowed to take more than two of the same skill. So, no three dodges or three wrestlers. I suppose that leaves room for a strip-ball linemen though.

So, if you can't put dodge on your fourth catcher, what would you pick instead?
kick. Sure hands. Leader.

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 Post subject: Re: First tourney with Slann (skyte)
 Post Posted: Thu May 21, 2015 11:44 pm 
Legend
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Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2002 3:02 am
Posts: 3372
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Thespian wrote:
It does answer some of the questions I have. However, I am not allowed to take more than two of the same skill. So, no three dodges or three wrestlers. I suppose that leaves room for a strip-ball linemen though.

So, if you can't put dodge on your fourth catcher, what would you pick instead?
I might take:

Linos: 2xWrestle, 1xS-Ball
Catchers: 1xGuard, 2xDodge, 1xS-Hands

or possibly the following is better:

Linos: 2xBlock, 2xWrestle
Catchers: 1xGuard, 2xDodge, nix

Hope that helps.

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 Post subject: Re: First tourney with Slann (skyte)
 Post Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 9:35 pm 
Rookie
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Smeborg wrote:
Linos: 2xBlock, 2xWrestle
Catchers: 1xGuard, 2xDodge, nix

Hope that helps.


Hmmm. It does. This might be the list I take, as much as I like having Kick, I am not sure it is going to make as much difference as some of the basic skills such as block and dodge. Now I just need to fight the temptation to cut a catcher+Linefrog for the Krox.


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