Dark elves 110K plus 6 normal skills-advice needed

[sturmjarl]

Hey all,
I'm taking Dark Elves to a 110K Resurrection Tourney with all skills given before game 1.
Additional Skills

You can choose one of the following skill packages to add to players on your team.

Package A: 6 normal skills

Package B: 4 normal skills and 1 doubles skill

Package C: 2 normal skills and 2 doubles skills

You may only assign one additional skill per player, and no skill may be taken more than twice. You may not assign a skill to a Star Player.

I've already decided to skip Star players.

I'm leaning towards rosters with Package A:
1xRunner (+leader)
2x witch elf (both + wrestle)
3x Blitzers (2 with Dodge)
5X lineman (1 +Block)
3x Rerolls
or

1x runner(+leader)
1x witch elf (+wrestle)
4X Blitzers (2 with dodge)
5X Lineman (1+wrestle, 1+block)
3x rerolls
1x FF
or

1x runner (+leader)
2x Witch elf (both +wrestle)
4x Blitzers (2 +Dodge)
4x Lineman (1 +Block)
2x Rerolls
2xFF

Any thoughts or alternative suggestions would be welcome!

Thanks in advance!

[Oly1987]

I'd say the last one. Gets you all blitzers and both witches. Shouldnt need more than 3 rr so 2 + leader should be fine. Only worry is 3 av7 and no apo you run the risk of ending up men down

[Gaixo]

The last one is pretty standard.

Unless you're really attached to that lineman with Block (or having Dump-Off), I would consider dropping the runner and putting Leader on a blitzer. I've had more than one game where my Leader runner gets taken out in the first couple of turns. An AV8 player with Block is a lot easier to protect. I also prefer Block on one of the witches, but that's probably just me.

I think it's also better to put money in coaches and/or cheerleaders rather than FF.

[KFoged]

I will go with:
1X Runner (Leader)
2X Witch elf (Block and wrestle)
3X Blitzers (2 with Dodge and sure hands)
5X Lineelf
2X Rerolls
1X Apo

But thats just me

[Gaixo]

He can't take any skill more than twice.

[sturmjarl]

Thanks for the advice!

Gaixo. Concerning the choice between FF and CL/AC. My thinking is obviously to (possibly) win FAME and Kickoff results. Are the odds better with CL/AC on one or two kickoff results or +1 FAME on four kickoff results?

[Hitonagashi]

Thanks for the advice!

Gaixo. Concerning the choice between FF and CL/AC. My thinking is obviously to (possibly) win FAME and Kickoff results. Are the odds better with CL/AC on one or two kickoff results or +1 FAME on four kickoff results?

+1 FAME is better.

The problem is, given as the numbers vary from 2-12, then 1-2 FF doesn't actually change the odds of getting the FAME *that* much. I think, statistically speaking, the CL/AC will have a higher impact, as you can guarantee to have them.

[Gaixo]

Yeah, plus rocks and pitch invasions only come up on fairly uncommon kickoff rolls, and +1 FAME doesn't help you that much on a d6 roll. Fans and coaching come up more frequently, and are d3 rolls, so adding +1-3 can almost ensure an extra reroll (assuming the other guy hasn't done the same thing).

[Nuffle_Hate_Me]

I was looking at this for a the same tournament set up

4 x Blitzer (1 x Dodge, Sure Hands, Guard)
2 x WE (2 x Block)
5 x Linemen
2 x RR
3 x FF

[Da_Great_MC]

Runner (Leader)
2x Witch Elf (2x Wrestle)
4x Blitzer (2x Dodge, 1x Sidestep)
5x Lineman
1x RR

Twelve players

[Dudegrip]

Runner (Leader)
2x Witch Elf (2x Wrestle)
4x Blitzer (2x Dodge, 1x Sidestep)
5x Lineman
1x RR

Twelve players

I haven't played Dark Elves in a tournament before, but I did win a league with them. I'd feel comfortable fielding the above roster in either setting. Lacking a big guy makes a 12 man roster more prudent and DEs can get by on 2RRs total--but I would quibble with the (2x Dodge, 1x Sidestep) selection for the blitzers, preferring the skill selection below:

4x Blitzer (1x Dodge, 1x Guard)

One Blodger with AV 8 should be sufficient. And DEs really need one player with guard to make the WEs hum. BTW concur with both WEs taking tackle. In a league I only took one wrestle, the other block, but regretted the choice. Wrestle works synergistically with jump up, and in a resurrection tournament I'd be less afraid of being caught on the ground occasionally.

EricK
Expect poison from the standing water.
William Blake “Proverbs of Hell”

[Da_Great_MC]

In my experience, Dark Elves only lose when they suffer too many early casualties. Fielding a 12 player roster makes the chance of this happening a lot smaller.

I try to take as many Dodge as possible, because I find moving around reliably very important. Which is also why I wouldn't choose Guard on a non-dodging player. I'd hate to have to start my turn with repositioning a Guard player that might cost me one of my only two RR's / cost me a turnover.

The guy with Sidestep often picks up the ball and then hugs the sideline. If my opponent tries to attack the ball, they generally leave some crowd push opportunities, which imo is the best way to victory.

[Dudegrip]

Interesting! We’re definitely agreed that 12 men are necessary for DEs in tournaments, and seem to agree that 2 RRs are enough to be competitive. And given the way you use your Blitzers, running down the sideline, you’re absolutely right to be giving them Side Step instead of Guard. One thing I like about this forum is that people give the reasons for their choices, and so many choices in Blood Bowl ultimately depend on personal playing style.

I chose Guard because I tend to conduct my offense with the runner as the primary ball handler, in a very loose cage, one Witch Elf going past the LOS as a receiver, the other WE surfing people in front of the ball handler, who stays far enough in to break out along the edge himself, or shift back to the opposite side. I often hand- or dump-off to that WE or a Blitzer in the cloud around my ball carrier—a threefold threat which is hard to contain.

The DE Blitzer is a marvelous player and arguably the best player on the DE roster, but I find myself using them as support players, only handling the ball when other options have failed, which admittedly they do quite well. AG 4 offers a reasonable escape in extremis, and I find it just as easy to block or blitz away marking players, and reposition the Guard Blitzer without even dodging.

Dodge would always be the first skill, barring doubles, I’d give a DE Blitzer in a league, and they do really shine with the Dodge skill, but with 2 WEs in your build with Dodge, I’d be looking for other key skills the team needs.

EricK
No bird soars too high, if he soars with his own wings.
William Blake “Proverbs of Hell”

[sturmjarl]

Agreed! I appreciate all the great ideas. I've decided to compromise between some of the suggestions.

1x Runner + Leader
4x Blitzers (1 +Dodge, 1 +Guard)
2x Witches (both +Wrestle)
4 X Lineman
1x Reroll
1x Apothecary
2x FF

I'm much more experienced with Progression/Resurrection tourneys, so having all skills up front will be interesting. I hate to lose the reroll, but I hope to get FAME (and I'll need some HOT dice to control "bad DE 1"s" mojo.) The apothecary will be my 12th man, so I can save positionals if/when things go badly as opposed to a 70K un-skilled player. That leaves me with 20k for FF. AC/CL may be better but I want the chance of covering more bases on the Kick-off chart. My logic may be off, but FF "feels" better. I'm not overly concerned about being outmannned. Elves "can" still win with less on the pitch. I think wrestle will protect my witch elves along with annoying my opposition and the guard piece will help with that (I hope). Less skills will speed-up play for me too (so will having only 2 rerolls!). It's all an imperfect compromise but I'll let you know how it goes.

[Dudegrip]

There's one more consideration to the FF vs AC/CL question. +2 FF marginally increases your chances of getting +1 FAME, but also +2 FAME, and it significantly decreases the chance of -2 FAME. -2 FAME can be a game looser, especially on pitch invasion. The cumulative benefits of +2 FF would seem to outweigh AC/CL, which just helps you get the odd reroll, something you'll get with +1 FAME as well.

EricK
Bring out number weight & measure in a year of dearth.
William Blake “Proverbs of Hell”