Nasty Nancies (Nurgle) advice

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Nasty Nancies (Nurgle) advice

Post by Digger Goreman »

Nurgle is somewhat out of my comfort zone.... After facing the plastic onslaught of mine, and Dr Lucky's first nine turns... my dice got hot for two turns and allowed me to even the score at one.... Dr Lucky passed ALL block attempts against my warriors FOR THE WHOLE GAME! Having not played Nurgle enough, I forgot my disturbing presence and it might have saved me from a cheek clenching finale in which his chaos team handed off the ball to nearly win.... Nuffle finally gave him an imoportune one, on a gfi, to stop the sequence....

Two skill ups resulted in a strength increase on an unskilled warrior (no brainer) and I kid you not, a strength increase for a rotter.... I am sitting on the rotter decision, till sleep and your opinions register....

Nasty Nancies:

R 6+6 (7)
R (0)
R kick (8)
R (5)
R (3)
R (0) fresh kill
W +St (7)
W block (7)
W block (7)
W (4)
P extra arms (9)
P (3)
P (5)
P (0)
BoN (2)
2 rerolls
4 fan factor
40k treasury

This team is starting to feel the bloat.... My inclinations are to simply cut the two non performing rotters... keep BoN-BoN in the hopes that she will not cost me as severely as today (spent the majority of the game whimpering on the field)... and I'm on the fence about whether a temporary rotter is worth the cost of added strength.... On the other hand, a guard rotter is intriguing....

What think the gallery?

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Re: Nasty Nancies (Nurgle) advice

Post by Genghis »

I want those dice. :)

Take the +ST Rotter. Trim the Rotters sitting on 0 SPP to get down to 13 players. Keep the BoN, but use passively as much as possible to avoid going Stupid.

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Re: Nasty Nancies (Nurgle) advice

Post by Fassbinder75 »

You'll go game after game where FA does FA, then you'll have a regression to the mean game and your opponent will be cursing his inability to do anything.

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Re: Nasty Nancies (Nurgle) advice

Post by swilhelm73 »

I had a +ST rotter for a while - he was a pretty good ball carrier.

I did try and hand off to other players though for the actual score...

I did eventually cut him to get under a TV cap but he was useful while I had him.

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Re: Nasty Nancies (Nurgle) advice

Post by Digger Goreman »

Genghis wrote: I want those dice. :)
Meh! Those black plastic assassins held out on me till the last two rolls... I'm thinking about forgiving them.... :-?

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Re: Nasty Nancies (Nurgle) advice

Post by MattDakka »

Take Leader on the Rotter, an extra reroll for 30TV is a bargain, if you don't want Leader then take Guard.
S4 on a Blockless Rotter is not worth 50 TV.
By the way, what's the purpose of Extra Arms on a Pestigor?
Sure Hands is way better.
swilhelm73 wrote:I had a +ST rotter for a while - he was a pretty good ball carrier.

I did try and hand off to other players though for the actual score...
1) A MA 5 player is not a pretty good ball carrier, a pretty good ball carrier has MA 6 or higher;
2) Handing Off to another player is an unnecessary roll you should avoid.

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Re: Nasty Nancies (Nurgle) advice

Post by swilhelm73 »

MattDakka wrote:
1) A MA 5 player is not a pretty good ball carrier, a pretty good ball carrier has MA 6 or higher;
2) Handing Off to another player is an unnecessary roll you should avoid.
MA6 is better then MA5 of course, but for the most part you have 8 turns of slog to score in anyway. And the fact that your opponent will generally need two assists to take him down is a major bonus. Also, your pesties have plenty of other things they could be doing most of the time...

If you can't safely hand off, of course you score with the guy with the ball. And I'd rather not constantly score with a rotter - level3 was good enough with ST4/Block. But most of the time I found I had the option to give it to someone else...

I currently have a +ST Pesty as a ball carrier, which is better. But the Rotter worked for a while too...

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Re: Nasty Nancies (Nurgle) advice

Post by MattDakka »

swilhelm73 wrote:
MattDakka wrote:
1) A MA 5 player is not a pretty good ball carrier, a pretty good ball carrier has MA 6 or higher;
2) Handing Off to another player is an unnecessary roll you should avoid.
MA6 is better then MA5 of course, but for the most part you have 8 turns of slog to score in anyway.
Err... 8 turns to score is the optimal scenario, the problem arises when you have 2-3 turns to score and no reliable ball carrier. As everybody knows, the best ball carrier is a Pestigor with at least either +1 MA or +1 AG stat increase, then Sure Hands, Two Heads, Dodge. Anything that deviates from this, like a Rotter, sucks as ball carrier.
swilhelm73 wrote: And the fact that your opponent will generally need two assists to take him down is a major bonus. Also, your pesties have plenty of other things they could be doing most of the time...
The must-have stats for a ball carrier are MA and AG. Why? Because a ball carrier must be able to move quickly the ball across the pitch, so you want a fast player, Strength is less important than +MA/+AG for a ball carrier, especially on a slow team as Nurgle. ST is a nice bonus but not as important as MA and/or AG.
By the way, a Blockless Rotter, even with ST 4, is not that hard to -2d knock down, 25% without reroll, 43.75 % with a reroll.
Are you talking about a Block ST 4 Rotter? Ok then you have a MA 5 ball carrier without Sure Hands, not really suited to his ball carrying purpose.
swilhelm73 wrote: I currently have a +ST Pesty as a ball carrier, which is better. But the Rotter worked for a while too...
As I said, a ST 4 ball carrier is not as good as a MA 7/AG 4. ST 4 is waste if you have it on your ball carrier, because most of times you won't be blocking with him if he has the ball.
A Bull Centaur is an exception because he is the fastest player on his team and he starts with ST 4, but investing 50 TV on a stat less important than MA/AG is not optimal, especially on a Rotter.
It's better to build a Pestigor as ball carrier, ideally the first one rolling + MA/+ AG.

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Re: Nasty Nancies (Nurgle) advice

Post by swilhelm73 »

MattDakka wrote: Err... 8 turns to score is the optimal scenario, the problem arises when you have 2-3 turns to score and no reliable ball carrier. As everybody knows, the best ball carrier is a Pestigor with at least either +1 MA or +1 AG stat increase, then Sure Hands, Two Heads, Dodge. Anything that deviates from this, like a Rotter, sucks as ball carrier.
Ideally you have something like an 8/4/4/8 Block, SH Pesty to carry the ball but you have to work with what you have... 8)
MattDakka wrote:The must-have stats for a ball carrier are MA and AG. Why? Because a ball carrier must be able to move quickly the ball across the pitch, so you want a fast player, Strength is less important than +MA/+AG for a ball carrier, especially on a slow team as Nurgle. ST is a nice bonus but not as important as MA and/or AG.
Again, you have to work with what you have. And you are seriously undercutting the different +ST makes. If you have to sprint into the open with a ST4 Rotter or a rookie ST3 Pesty, the odds of taking down the former are 1/4, and the latter 1/2. Even if you have block on the pesty, but not the rotter, it is still 1/4 vs 1/3.
MattDakka wrote:Ok then you have a MA 5 ball carrier without Sure Hands, not really suited to his ball carrying purpose.
You can get SH as easily on a rotter as a pesty.


MattDakka wrote:
As I said, a ST 4 ball carrier is not as good as a MA 7/AG 4. ST 4 is waste if you have it on your ball carrier, because most of times you won't be blocking with him if he has the ball.
My St4 pesty ended up with blodge. I know how to play Nurgle, so I don't leave him alone in the open to get blitzed very often but when I do have to bootleg you'd be amazed at how much of a problem ST4 is on a ball carrier for the opposition. It is also great for handling those silly leaping elves...who even if they can blitz you with no guard support still have to throw a -2D block...
MattDakka wrote: A Bull Centaur is an exception because he is the fastest player on his team and he starts with ST 4, but investing 50 TV on a stat less important than MA/AG is not optimal, especially on a Rotter.
It's better to build a Pestigor as ball carrier, ideally the first one rolling + MA/+ AG.
I had a +AG, blodge, SS, SH Bull Centaur once. He was the league MVP and led me to a league title (in the course of which he took -ST :cry: )

My nurgle team has played something like 60 matches and never rolled an AG up. I've rolled 4 ST ups. A NW (which is awesome). A Pesty (which is awesome). Another Pesty who is now dead (not awesome any more). And a rotter (though he was the first guy to do so on the team).

So you can't presume you are going to have a +ag player. Heck, my chaos team also with about 60 games had NO +st or +ag players until a CW rolled +ST last game...

In the team's early evolution, when I had the +ST Rotter and not yet any other stat bumps, he was a good running back and safety. Not great...but good enough...and I think I rode him to the title of that league that season IIRC. My blodge, +ST pesty is a better ball carrier...but I didn't have him then...

Having Rotters you don't want to put on the line is also a separate problem (since it means sticking more positionals on the D line instead). But he earned his keep until better options were available...

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Re: Nasty Nancies (Nurgle) advice

Post by MattDakka »

swilhelm73 wrote:
Ideally you have something like an 8/4/4/8 Block, SH Pesty to carry the ball but you have to work with what you have... 8)
Yes, but a Rotter will never have MA 8, unlike a Pestigor, so it's better to start from a Pestigor and ignoring the Rotter as ball carrier.
A Rotter with +MA is just MA 6, while a Pestigor with MA 7 can score in 2 turns with no GFIs from the half of the pitch, the MA difference is huge.

swilhelm73 wrote: Again, you have to work with what you have. And you are seriously undercutting the different +ST makes. If you have to sprint into the open with a ST4 Rotter or a rookie ST3 Pesty, the odds of taking down the former are 1/4, and the latter 1/2. Even if you have block on the pesty, but not the rotter, it is still 1/4 vs 1/3.
And if you have to sprint into the open it's better to have to sprint less, thus MA is golden.
With enough MA you could even avoid being blocked at all just by moving far enough from opponent players.
swilhelm73 wrote: You can get SH as easily on a rotter as a pesty.
Of course, but still the MA 5 issue remains.
swilhelm73 wrote: My St4 pesty ended up with blodge. I know how to play Nurgle, so I don't leave him alone in the open to get blitzed very often but when I do have to bootleg you'd be amazed at how much of a problem ST4 is on a ball carrier for the opposition. It is also great for handling those silly leaping elves...who even if they can blitz you with no guard support still have to throw a -2D block...
A Pestigor is the best ball carrier, as I said. My point is that building a S4 Rotter as ball carrier is a bad idea.

swilhelm73 wrote: So you can't presume you are going to have a +ag player.
If in 60 games I doubt you can't roll +MA on a Pestigor. As I said, either MA or AG are core stat increases for a good ball carrier, never said you must have +AG, +MA is good too.
swilhelm73 wrote: In the team's early evolution, when I had the +ST Rotter and not yet any other stat bumps, he was a good running back and safety.
MA 5 good running back and safety?! Come on... how could he blitz fast opponent players with MA 5?
swilhelm73 wrote: Having Rotters you don't want to put on the line is also a separate problem (since it means sticking more positionals on the D line instead). But he earned his keep until better options were available...
Out of curiosity, have you ever played in the Box on FUMBBL?
Because on FUMBBL Nurgle coaches generally avoid to bloat their Rotters for that reason too (i.e. they want expendable cheap fodder, not ST 4 Rotters).

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Re: Nasty Nancies (Nurgle) advice

Post by Smeborg »

Digger - I have never rolled 6+6 on a Rotter. Off the top of my head I would be inclined to take Guard, but I suppose +ST is hard to resist. I think this is a tough decision.

All the best.

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Re: Nasty Nancies (Nurgle) advice

Post by Digger Goreman »

The building problems of the team are rerolls and money.... It would be several games till another reroll IF injuries cease.... And I seem to burn rerolls like a magician burns flash paper.... :oops: And I can't see putting leader on warriors or pestigors.... Hmmmmmmm....

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Re: Nasty Nancies (Nurgle) advice

Post by MattDakka »

Digger Goreman wrote:The building problems of the team are rerolls and money.... It would be several games till another reroll IF injuries cease.... And I seem to burn rerolls like a magician burns flash paper.... :oops: And I can't see putting leader on warriors or pestigors.... Hmmmmmmm....
Take Leader on the Rotter then.
I think your team, currently lacking core skills, would benefit more from the 3rd Leader rr than from a ST 4 Rotter.

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Re: Nasty Nancies (Nurgle) advice

Post by swilhelm73 »

MattDakka wrote:

Yes, but a Rotter will never have MA 8, unlike a Pestigor, so it's better to start from a Pestigor and ignoring the Rotter as ball carrier.
A Rotter with +MA is just MA 6, while a Pestigor with MA 7 can score in 2 turns with no GFIs from the half of the pitch, the MA difference is huge.
I think you miss the point here...very few drives are going to start with any player on your roster have +2MA. In fact, a lot of your drives as Nurgle will start with no potential ball carrying players with any stat bump whatsoever. And this is why any stat bump on any potential carrier is valuable. If you are playing in a tournament that lets you buy skills, sure build a Pesty carrier...but don't expect things will necessarily work out that way in league play...

MattDakka wrote: And if you have to sprint into the open it's better to have to sprint less, thus MA is golden.
With enough MA you could even avoid being blocked at all just by moving far enough from opponent players.
Presuming you have competent opponents, they can free at least one player to blitz your bootlegging ball carrier. And that is why you need something to keep him up...like +ST.

And of course as also pointed out, ST4 is also helpful in a cage/partial cage/screen for the same reason.
swilhelm73 wrote: You can get SH as easily on a rotter as a pesty.
Of course, but still the MA 5 issue remains.
MattDakka wrote:
A Pestigor is the best ball carrier, as I said. My point is that building a S4 Rotter as ball carrier is a bad idea.
The player with the better stat/skill mix is the better carrier. And ST4 beats ST3...
MattDakka wrote:
If in 60 games I doubt you can't roll +MA on a Pestigor. As I said, either MA or AG are core stat increases for a good ball carrier, never said you must have +AG, +MA is good too.
You will get +AG 1/18 rolls. +MA is harder to assess because on 5+5 you might want an agility skill instead. Also, you might roll 6+4 on that guy you are building to be a killer. So one should NOT expect that you will always have the choice of a pesty with a stat bump to choose as your running back.

As I also mentioned, my Chaos team has been in a similar circumstance so it happens...a lot. Of course my Necro team has consistently had +ag wights and ghouls and my Khemri team has had a =AG throw ra for a long time...so the RNG can be kind as well...

Part of winning consistently comes down to best using the builds you have available which will by no means always mesh with the builds you want to be able to choose from.
MattDakka wrote: r that reason too (i.e. they want expendable cheap fodder, not ST 4 Rotters).
I played on FUMBBL a long time ago and mostly Cyanide private leagues now. I strongly prefer the league atmosphere (and I'll also send a shout out to my primary league who are a great bunch of guys http://www.gobbln.com/index.shtml)

If you are looking at a pure match making environment that changes the calculus A LOT. In fact, you probably want a killer and a bunch of no/low skill players to go with him.

You could build a nurgle team as something like:

NWx4: Block (520)
Pest: Block, MB, Claw, PO, Tackle (180)
Pestx3: Block (300)
Rotter: DP (60)
Rotterx3: Rookie (120)
3 RR (210)
8 FF (80)

for 1470 and probably destroy most opponents in match making. Or heck take block off everyone outside of the killer and get a TV of 1330.

But if you min mix like that in a permanent league it likely won't work as well.... :orc:

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Re: Nasty Nancies (Nurgle) advice

Post by MattDakka »

swilhelm73 wrote: I think you miss the point here...very few drives are going to start with any player on your roster have +2MA. In fact, a lot of your drives as Nurgle will start with no potential ball carrying players with any stat bump whatsoever. And this is why any stat bump on any potential carrier is valuable. If you are playing in a tournament that lets you buy skills, sure build a Pesty carrier...but don't expect things will necessarily work out that way in league play...
A MA 5 Rotter is not a potential carrier. Too slow, not efficient.
swilhelm73 wrote: Presuming you have competent opponents, they can free at least one player to blitz your bootlegging ball carrier. And that is why you need something to keep him up...like +ST.
Presuming you have competent opponents, they can free at least one player to blitz your slow bootlegging ball carrier for either a -2d block OR a 1d block, if they fail this, well, a MA 5 player won't run very far away, right?
swilhelm73 wrote:The player with the better stat/skill mix is the better carrier. And ST4 beats ST3...
A MA 7 ST 3 ball carrier beats a MA 5 ST 4.
swilhelm73 wrote:
You will get +AG 1/18 rolls. +MA is harder to assess because on 5+5 you might want an agility skill instead. Also, you might roll 6+4 on that guy you are building to be a killer. So one should NOT expect that you will always have the choice of a pesty with a stat bump to choose as your running back.
Even if you don't roll +MA, a MA 6 Pestigor is faster than a MA 5 Rotter, therefore better as ball carrier.
swilhelm73 wrote: Part of winning consistently comes down to best using the builds you have available which will by no means always mesh with the builds you want to be able to choose from.
Part of winning consistently comes down to carefully choosing the skills and the stats of every player, a MA 5 Rotter is not a good starting "chassis" for a ball carrier player.
swilhelm73 wrote: I played on FUMBBL a long time ago and mostly Cyanide private leagues now. I strongly prefer the league atmosphere (and I'll also send a shout out to my primary league who are a great bunch of guys http://www.gobbln.com/index.shtml)
I stopped playing on Cyanide because an accidental connection drop could ruin a match, C.Pact, Slann and many Star Players are missing, also, leagues don't allow me to play as much as I want, anyway I play on FUMBBL in a league and in Box.
swilhelm73 wrote: But if you min mix like that in a permanent league it likely won't work as well.... :orc:
Playing in a league gives you more bloat-freedom but still this is not an excuse to try to turn a Rotter into a ball carrier.

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