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Which roster
Poll ended at Fri Jul 17, 2015 4:06 pm
BASH = PILE IT ON GENEROUSLY 64%  64%  [ 7 ]
Grotty = Got to get the ball 9%  9%  [ 1 ]
My idea is better = Explained in reply post 27%  27%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 11
 
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 Post subject: Which roster? Ogres 1100K
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:06 pm 
Super Star
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Ogres, trying to decide between a pure bash team and a possibly competitive roster. So here are the rules: 1100K tournie (diablo bowl in Texas): up to 100K may be spent on skills and AV or MV upgrades, 2 max of any skill, and players may only have 2 skills assigned to them max, 0-1 star players are allowed, must have 11 player roster.

So here are my options:

BASH!

6 ogres = 840K
5 Snots = 100K
Block on two ogres = 60k
Pile On on two other ogres = 40K
1 Apothecary = 50k
1 FF =10k

The apoth is to make sure that I always have max ogres on field and don't loose skilled ogres.
The FF is to possibly get a RR at kick offs.

GROTTY

5 ogres = 700k
4 snots = 80k
Brick and grotty = 290K
1 Leader skill on an ogre = 30k
0 RR

Really think grotty is the key to ball handling and competitiveness here, and they get 1 RR via leader here.

Total 1100K

So thoughts or modifications you would make to either roster

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 Post subject: Re: Which roster? Ogres 1100K
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 1:22 am 
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If you're tempted to go competitive this style of list has served me well (3 stunty cups now):

5 Ogres @ 700k
8 Snots @ 160k
2 RR @ 140
100k Skills (2 block Ogres, 2 diving tackle snots)

Ball handler is always a snotling, they can dodge anywhere on a 2+ with a RR. You only need to get within 7 squares of the endzone and they can probably just walk through any defense, of course you need to get them to that point and that's how you use the Ogres. Ogres grind out a cage forwards if your opponent lets you (the two block guys are very reliable!) and when they bonehead you use the snots to make it tricky to get to the ball carrier, remember to position the diving tacklers well as snotlings exert rubbish tackle zones.

You need numbers, less than 8 snotlings is suicide (preferrably 9!) but you'll also need RR. The list improves if the 100k skills are on top of the 1100 TV as you can take an extra snotling and RR.

Defense is about keeping Ogres between your opponent and the endzone and snotlings to plug gaps, protect the diving tacklers and if you get chance push through and put snotling tackle zones on the ball carrier (especially a diving tackler).

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 Post subject: Re: Which roster? Ogres 1100K
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:15 am 
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Of the three, Talon's looks best!

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 Post subject: Re: Which roster? Ogres 1100K
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:23 am 
Legend
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I agree, but Ogres can be quite frustrating at the same time.

If his roster doesnt work (too much TV), I'd reccomend to go for the bash. That's what they do best, and removes any tactical frustrations/ideas you might have with them :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Which roster? Ogres 1100K
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 7:58 pm 
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Thinking of going with a hybrid roster now:

6 Ogres = 840
8 snots = 160
2 block skills = 60
1 leader = 60

1 (FF or AC or CL), not sure yet which would be best, but leaning towards FF for versatility. That brings me to 1100k with players and skills.

This way I could try competitive, and if I change my mind still have 6 ogres to go for casualties.

Thanks for the feedback so far. More comments would be welcome.

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 Post subject: Re: Which roster? Ogres 1100K
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 8:28 pm 
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In the past I've taken a Block/Break Tackle and sure hands/break tackle Ogre which allows Ogre ball carrying with a reasonable chance of success. B/BT takes out any tricky markers on the ball carrier. Other 3 ogres and snots screen for skilled ogres.

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 Post subject: Re: Which roster? Ogres 1100K
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:57 pm 
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4 Ogres, 11 snotlings, Bomber, 3 rr, apo

Break tackle on 2 ogres, use them to carry the ball. Bomber on defence.

It's the most competitive setup, believe me.


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 Post subject: Re: Which roster? Ogres 1100K
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:42 pm 
Super Star
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anyone tried FRENZYing ogres in a tournie or league? Almost curious how that would work for a bash/casualty aimed team?

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 Post subject: Re: Which roster? Ogres 1100K
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:47 pm 
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bouncergriim wrote:
anyone tried FRENZYing ogres in a tournie or league? Almost curious how that would work for a bash/casualty aimed team?

I can think of better uses of a doubles skill. Would rather have Block, for example, as it much more reliable for knocking down opponents, and useful in defence.

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 Post subject: Re: Which roster? Ogres 1100K
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:20 pm 
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bouncergriim wrote:
anyone tried FRENZYing ogres in a tournie or league? Almost curious how that would work for a bash/casualty aimed team?


I have a juggernaut, frenzy, break tackle ogre on FUMBBL (blackbox).
Its a lot of fun (he's an awesome cage-breaker), but then I have a pretty terrible record with the team so don't really care about the actual results :P

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 Post subject: Re: Which roster? Ogres 1100K
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 2:01 am 
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so which would be more important a leader skill (my only reroll) or a couple of ogres with break tackle to be able to pressure the ball carrier more?
To boil it down I have 40k to play with for skills, I can either go:
leader and 1 FF
or 2 break tackles.

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 Post subject: Re: Which roster? Ogres 1100K
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:46 pm 
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I think I have settled on an slightly different tactic. No rerolls
2 ogres with block
1 ogre with break tackle and juggernaught
3 regular ogres
8 snotlings.

This way I have a relatively reliable blitzer and two good blockers So aside from bone head I should get 3 solid block. And those blocks should only have a 1 in 36 chance of a TO for me, snots can dodge with the same TO chance. So that gives me 2 blocks, 1 blitz and at least 5 movement actions that are very low in the TO possiblity. Also more possible hits than ending up on the ground after a pile on.

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 Post subject: Re: Which roster? Ogres 1100K
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:23 am 
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You should decide whether you want to actually attempt to play competitively, or just cause carnage and mayhem.

If winning doesn't matter to you, go with as much Piling On as you can, and no other skills. Inform your opponent that you won't be playing any defense at all, and encourage him to score as often as possible. This means he will be constantly setting up three on the line. Set up 3d blocks, bash hard, pile on every chance you get, ignore the ball.
If you do this, you will almost certainly win the Most Cas trophy, and one of your opponents will get Most TD's. You'll lose every game by 6+ TDs, but it's just amazing how many casualties this tactic can get you.
It's worth mentioning that many other coaches will consider this to be underhanded and borderline cheating. There's an unwritten rule that you're supposed to at least *try* to win games. But as long as that isn't actually written, and tournaments give out a Most Cas trophy, it's legal. I'm not here to judge or debate the ethics of this tactic.
If that's what you want, I recommend:
5 ogres = 700K
8 Snots = 160K
2 Rerolls = 140k
Piling On on five ogres = 100K

If you actually want to play competitively, and this is what I recommend, it becomes more difficult. I like TalonBay's lineup, although I'd trade in Block for other skills, just because Block is so expensive in this format:
5 Ogres = 700k
8 Snots = 160k
2 Rerolls = 140
2x Break Tackle = 40
2x Diving Tackle (on snots) = 40
1x Guard = 20

2 Rerolls isn't really enough (for either roster), and you'd like more skills, but that's the reality of playing Ogres in this tournament format. The Guard can help get 3d blocks on offense, and if he's near your ball carrying snotling, it might at least turn your opponent's 3d blitz into a 2d blitz, which can be huge. Having multiple Break Tackle Ogres means you always have options. They won't always be good options, but it's better than AG2 dodges. And the Diving Tackle snotlings can be potentially game-winning on defense, but you need to protect them. Their role is to run next to the ball carrier right before your opponent's turn 8. You need two of these guys (well, you need like six) because Snotlings just break so easy.

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 Post subject: Re: Which roster? Ogres 1100K
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:56 am 
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rolo wrote:
Inform your opponent that you won't be playing any defense at all, and encourage him to score as often as possible. This means he will be constantly setting up three on the line. Set up 3d blocks, bash hard, pile on every chance you get, ignore the ball.
If you do this, you will almost certainly win the Most Cas trophy, and one of your opponents will get Most TD's. You'll lose every game by 6+ TDs, but it's just amazing how many casualties this tactic can get you.
It's worth mentioning that many other coaches will consider this to be underhanded and borderline cheating. There's an unwritten rule that you're supposed to at least *try* to win games. But as long as that isn't actually written, and tournaments give out a Most Cas trophy, it's legal.

If I knew someone was doing this at one of my tourneys, I wouldn't award them anything. And word would get around as to why they appeared to have scored the most CAS but were not awarded for it.

I've taken Ogre teams with the express intention of getting Most CAS, but I still play to score TDs, where one can, and have even won games and still got Most CAS.

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 Post subject: Re: Which roster? Ogres 1100K
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:19 am 
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lunchmoney wrote:
If I knew someone was doing this at one of my tourneys, I wouldn't award them anything. And word would get around as to why they appeared to have scored the most CAS but were not awarded for it.


That's really something the organizer ought to make known before the tournament. Add a rule to your tournament description:
"Coaches are expected to attempt to win games. If the Organizer feels that this effort is not being made, the offending party will not be considered for awards"

I do get why people take offense to the style of play that I have described. But as long as it's within the tournament rules, I don't think that an organizer should change the rules after the fact.
I've heard of coaches intentionally losing matches to "win" a Wooden Spoon. Similar situation. Do you take that away and give it to the lowest-ranked coach who tried?

It's important that every coach knows what's expected of them, before the tournament starts.

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