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 Post subject: 1.3 million Full Beard Cup Goblins.
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 3:13 pm 
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So I'm going to the Full Beard cup with Goblins again(Natch!) and I really like the rules: Star players are allowed, 30K gets you a Leader reroll on any player.

Buuuut... I'm having trouble with my roster.

The combo I'm sure I want is Scrappa Sorehead and Ripper. If you get the toss off(Which ignores Always Hungry or Very Stupid), Scrappa's move and sure feet means he has a 62.5% chance of landing successfully. The reason Scrappa is important is that he's the only one with the movement guaranteed to get a single turn touchdown regardless of how bad the scatter is(Barring landing on someone). 62.5% each time you throw him for a one turn touchdown makes high scoring games.

That's 420, 000. Add in two trolls for one of the toughest lineups in Blood Bowl(2 S 5, 1 S6 and a potential S 7 if I choose a Fanatic) and you're looking at 640, 000. Goblins need a Looney as an answer to the Wardancer.

So... That's 680, 000. I need at least 6 more players but Goblins are guaranteed to have casualties.

I will not take Nobbla because he's a Loner with Chainsaw and that's begging for a turnover. I can take a single bribe for 50K. I learned from my last tournament that the Bomber is a hilarious answer to the treeman.(Catch!)

What do you think? Where should I go from there? Halfling Master-Chef to encourage turnovers so I can grab the ball? Maybe a few extra bodies to cover casualties?


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 Post subject: Re: 1.3 million Full Beard Cup Goblins.
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:25 pm 
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Wizard extra bodies and a bomber, at least there all garden teed to do something, well almost. Chef is expencive. If you play dwarfs with only two re-rolls you are not going to get your money's worth.

I like the roster, sounds fun :orc:

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 Post subject: Re: 1.3 million Full Beard Cup Goblins.
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:01 pm 
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May I ask where the 62.5% comes from? Was under the impression that Scrappa landing with ag3 requires a 4.

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 Post subject: 1.3 million Full Beard Cup Goblins.
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:37 am 
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Itchen Masack wrote:
May I ask where the 62.5% comes from? Was under the impression that Scrappa landing with ag3 requires a 4.

Then a reroll - if you pass loner. So you have a 50% shot at making the first roll. If you fail you'd normally get another 50% shot (taking you to 75%), though due to Loner you only have an every other chance of making it.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.3 million Full Beard Cup Goblins.
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:05 am 
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Shteve0 wrote:
Itchen Masack wrote:
May I ask where the 62.5% comes from? Was under the impression that Scrappa landing with ag3 requires a 4.

Then a reroll - if you pass loner. So you have a 50% shot at making the first roll. If you fail you'd normally get another 50% shot (taking you to 75%), though due to Loner you only have an every other chance of making it.


Just so. But that 62.5% roll is a 62.5% chance of a one-turn touchdown. Turnover scatters the ball, but carefully arranging the board can minimize the damage from that. If he falls, there's a decent chance he'll be all right and not die.

If you -don't- use Scrappa, you have a single goblin pushing to the back field with no support. That's a recipe for disaster.

Scrappa's move and sure feet means he will always be within range of a touchdown. His Leap and Very Long Legs skill means even if your opponent builds a solid wall at the back and has no openings, you have a very good chance of single turn touchdowns.

All with very little chance that they will have any answer to it. It's a better-than-coin-toss chance you'll get a single turn touchdown. It also works for when they fail to pick up the ball.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.3 million Full Beard Cup Goblins.
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:41 am 
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Cheers Shteve0, i really should have seen that :oops: Was thinking more about the entire 1 turn attempt that Scrappa is claiming is 62.5%

Not sure the Pickup, handoff, and troll throw have been considered part of the 1 turn? Sure Ripper doesnt have Stupid or Hunger, but he still needs a 3+ top get Scrappa into the air in the first place.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.3 million Full Beard Cup Goblins.
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:56 pm 
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Scrappa wrote:
It's a better-than-coin-toss chance you'll get a single turn touchdown.

Well no, as as you said in your OP you've still got to make the throw (and potentially get the ball to Scrappa for a 1TTD).

A better chance than with a normal goblin/troll combo? Yes.
"Better-than-coin-toss" chance? No.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.3 million Full Beard Cup Goblins.
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:19 pm 
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What worries me with goblins at this event is only being allowed 1 bribe.
If you're only going with one fanatic then take Fungus, 10k over a normal fanatic and you gain one move and mighty blow (albeit at the cost of Loner).
It would be very tempting to take a full 16 men though you want at least 3 rerolls... probably more.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.3 million Full Beard Cup Goblins.
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:28 am 
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Sandwich wrote:
What worries me with goblins at this event is only being allowed 1 bribe.
If you're only going with one fanatic then take Fungus, 10k over a normal fanatic and you gain one move and mighty blow (albeit at the cost of Loner).
It would be very tempting to take a full 16 men though you want at least 3 rerolls... probably more.


You're only allowed two stars as per the CRP (unless there's a different rule for this tournament)

I agree though, lose Scrappa and go for Fungus instead

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 Post subject: Re: 1.3 million Full Beard Cup Goblins.
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:15 am 
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Darkson wrote:
Scrappa wrote:
It's a better-than-coin-toss chance you'll get a single turn touchdown.

Well no, as as you said in your OP you've still got to make the throw (and potentially get the ball to Scrappa for a 1TTD).

A better chance than with a normal goblin/troll combo? Yes.
"Better-than-coin-toss" chance? No.


Don't forget likely block ripper free in the first place, unless you're setting up a square back from the line

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 Post subject: Re: 1.3 million Full Beard Cup Goblins.
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:21 pm 
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Shteve0 wrote:
Darkson wrote:
Scrappa wrote:
It's a better-than-coin-toss chance you'll get a single turn touchdown.

Well no, as as you said in your OP you've still got to make the throw (and potentially get the ball to Scrappa for a 1TTD).

A better chance than with a normal goblin/troll combo? Yes.
"Better-than-coin-toss" chance? No.


Don't forget likely block ripper free in the first place, unless you're setting up a square back from the line



Yep! But that's why I say 'If you get the throw off'.

If you fail to throw, the ball stays surrounded by your gobbos - Still not bad.

If you fail to hand off - Same thing.

If you fail to block - Ripper is still up and Scrappa is surrounded still.

Ultimately, the reason I say '62.5%' is because the only -critical- thing(That is - Thing that cannot be done over multiple turns) is the throw and land.

In the last tournament I was in, once the throw was off, there really was no answer for it. He just walked in for a touchdown. If you don't get the throw off, try again next turn.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.3 million Full Beard Cup Goblins.
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:26 pm 
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If you don't need any GFI to get to hand off position, you are still looking at a 33% chance to even get the ball in scrappas hands and ripper free (44% with a reroll on the pickup)
So it's not even a coin toss to get a ~60% chance. Kick skill can ruin your chances pretty easily - maybe look at KOR on a gob?
Are you taking the rostered pogo?
I think it would be pretty easy to suss out and just put 4 guys on LOS forcing you to throw 2 blocks to free Ripper.

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 Post subject: Re: 1.3 million Full Beard Cup Goblins.
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:12 pm 
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natsirtm wrote:
If you don't need any GFI to get to hand off position, you are still looking at a 33% chance to even get the ball in scrappas hands and ripper free (44% with a reroll on the pickup)
So it's not even a coin toss to get a ~60% chance. Kick skill can ruin your chances pretty easily - maybe look at KOR on a gob?
Are you taking the rostered pogo?
I think it would be pretty easy to suss out and just put 4 guys on LOS forcing you to throw 2 blocks to free Ripper.


Or don't put Ripper on the line of scrimmage. Theoretically, you could do better with Ogres running Brick and Scrappa, but the difference between S5 and S6 is the difference between requiring a lot of support in most cases or a little.

And maybe I will take the rostered pogo for the bonus move for handoff, but not for throwing 'cause he doesn't have the Right Stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.3 million Full Beard Cup Goblins.
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:48 pm 
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Pedda wrote:
Sandwich wrote:
What worries me with goblins at this event is only being allowed 1 bribe.
If you're only going with one fanatic then take Fungus, 10k over a normal fanatic and you gain one move and mighty blow (albeit at the cost of Loner).
It would be very tempting to take a full 16 men though you want at least 3 rerolls... probably more.


You're only allowed two stars as per the CRP (unless there's a different rule for this tournament)

I agree though, lose Scrappa and go for Fungus instead


I think for the GW tournaments they've "relaxed" the rules about number of stars... I think you can also have stars are part of your rostered 11 rather than needing 11 first. I'm not 100% on this though... I'm hoping so, I've come up with some very silly elf rosters involving 11 players of which 4 are star players :-P

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 Post subject: Re: 1.3 million Full Beard Cup Goblins.
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:22 pm 
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Scrappa wrote:
natsirtm wrote:
If you don't need any GFI to get to hand off position, you are still looking at a 33% chance to even get the ball in scrappas hands and ripper free (44% with a reroll on the pickup)
So it's not even a coin toss to get a ~60% chance. Kick skill can ruin your chances pretty easily - maybe look at KOR on a gob?
Are you taking the rostered pogo?
I think it would be pretty easy to suss out and just put 4 guys on LOS forcing you to throw 2 blocks to free Ripper.


Or don't put Ripper on the line of scrimmage. Theoretically, you could do better with Ogres running Brick and Scrappa, but the difference between S5 and S6 is the difference between requiring a lot of support in most cases or a little.

And maybe I will take the rostered pogo for the bonus move for handoff, but not for throwing 'cause he doesn't have the Right Stuff.


Moving Ripper off the LOS kind of invalidates this point though?
Scrappa wrote:
The reason Scrappa is important is that he's the only one with the movement guaranteed to get a single turn touchdown regardless of how bad the scatter is(Barring landing on someone).


Yes I meant the pogo for the bonus move for handoff. Between him and a KOR goblin you could improve your odds of getting the throw off.

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