Eurobowl 2012 Proposed ruleset

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Topper
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Eurobowl 2012 Proposed ruleset

Post by Topper »

These are the rules we consider using (first review)
These are the second suggestion we´ve come up with after hearing your arguments.
Just as with the first one, this is for you to discuss and give input to, so we´ll make as good a ruleset as possible – and hopefully one everyone likes.
The changes from the first suggestion are marked in red.

Basic Rules:
We play according to the LRB6 including the three new teams. As a starting point the four minute rule isn´t enforced. The referees can and will re-enforce this if they find that necessary for the flow of the tournament, either in individual games or in all remaining games as they see fit. They might even enforce three or two minute turns in extreme cases.

Teams:
All teams have 1.100.000 gp to buy a team. All the official races from LRB6 as well as Chaos Pact, Slann and Underworld can be used. Goblins can buy 0-3 bribes at 50.000 and Halflings can buy the chef at 100.000. No other inducements are allowed for any races. No team values are ever calculated.

Start-skills:
The teams starts with skills according to this tier. Tier one gets zero starting skills, tier two gets one starting skill and tier three gets two starting skills.

Tier one
All races not in tier two or three

Tier two
chaos, Chaos Pact, Elf, High Elf, Human, Khemri, Nurgle, Slann (No Dark Elves, Chaos Added)

Tier three:
Goblin, Halfling, Ogre, Underworld, Vampire (Chaos moved to tier two)

Team development:
All games are played without post-match procedures and thus without winnings, player purchases etc. All injuries and earned star player points are waived after each game. So each game starts with the same players on the roster.

In the beginning of the pre-game sequence before round 1 and round 4 three skills may be assigned. These skills must be assigned to any player that has not yet gained a skill in the tournament. On day two when you may assign skills, one of these is given as if you had rolled a double on the skill roll, the rest of the skills must be available to the player on any skill roll.
Both coaches note down the assigned skill choice and the player getting the skill. Then they reveal the choices simultaneously. No player may have more than one extra skill. (removed the double on day one)

Tournament format:
The tournament consist of six rounds. In the rounds the national teams of eight players are teamed up two and two.
Teams are paired by swiss-draw In round two -five. In the first round teams are paired according to their eurobowl result from the previous five years. Any teams that did not participate in a eurobowl before are put last and ranked at random. The winners face the runner up, the 3rd placed team face the 4th and so forth. The individual matchups are decided randomly in the first round and by swiss-draw thereafter.
1 point is awarded for a victory, ½ for a draw and 0 for a defeat. The team with most points when all eight games are played is the winner. The winning team gets a +1 point to their team score.
In the case of equal score between two countries the following tie-breaker is used.
Mutual game followed by sum of opponents points and if still even best (TD+cas)-score then Netto-score.

Paint and miniatures
Painted miniatures are not mandatory (though we urge you to do so). Those teams, that by the judges, are deemed painted (ie all miniatures are painted and flocked in a sufficient standard.) will get +1 Cheerleader and +1 Assistant Coach.
The miniatures doesn´t have to be original GW-minis. However the miniatures must be representative for the rosters race and players (ie a Norse thrower must look like a Norse thrower) and be easily recognizable from other positionals.

We urge you to use the following color coded bases:
Grey/none: Lineman
Red: Blitzer
Green: Blocker
White: Thrower
Yellow: Catcher

If your opponent can´t easily recognize the different players from each other, you must let him mark them somehow (without damaging the mini, DOH). This could be with bottle caps or colored rings etc.

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Joemanji
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Re: Eurobowl 2012 Proposed ruleset

Post by Joemanji »

I don't have a strong opinion about extra skills for weak races, but there is an argument that Eurobowl is about pure competition, and making it "fair" for everyone misses the point. One thing though - Dark Elves are great! They rank #5 in the TR110 stats and don't belong in a weak tier IMO.

I thought the skill system from last year was brilliant (3 game one, 2+double game four). This brought a lot more races into contention IMO.

Hopefully you are keeping the captains pick for individual match ups? That was excellent.

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Re: Eurobowl 2012 Proposed ruleset

Post by Topper »

Fair points - though I´m not sure I understand this one..
but there is an argument that Eurobowl is about pure competition, and making it "fair" for everyone misses the point.

If it´s about pure competition - well then the more even the races the better right? That way it won´t be the same 10 teams that is chosen on every team.

About the DE´s, It´s obviously a matter of opinion which teams belong in which tiers. And i recognize the statistics - the thing is that these lists take little concern to who is playing what team. However it is funny that in all my time as a EB coach I have seen 1-2 of them at the EB.. They´re there but not on a large scale - and I have never attended a tourney where they did really good. Ie were all over the top places
Also I myself usually play DE´s - but they are not competitve in a short tournament IMO.
They can just work if they get a starter skill or much better as in the worldcup with more skills.

Skills allocated at two batches is a good idea - IMO.

We, the Danes, felt it was close to useless for the captains to pick the match ups.
It was so random, that the entire idea behind it was lost, we felt.
Especially when considering it took about 15 min. longer before each round to start to wait for this. It could work if there were more tactical choices involved but as it was it came close to complete randoimness.

But lets hear alot of opinions on everything - nothing here is decided and we´re open for discussions on getting the best rulesheet for as many as possible :)

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Re: Eurobowl 2012 Proposed ruleset

Post by Joemanji »

Topper wrote:Fair points - though I´m not sure I understand this one..
but there is an argument that Eurobowl is about pure competition, and making it "fair" for everyone misses the point.

If it´s about pure competition - well then the more even the races the better right? That way it won´t be the same 10 teams that is chosen on every team.
Maybe I didn't explain that as well as I could. Normal tournaments are about being inclusive, getting as many people involved playing as many races as possible. More races = more fun. But some people see Eurobowl now (though it didn't start this way) as the tournament where everyone turns up with the best race they can and plays hard. Win, win, win. Measures to 'balance' races are seen as being experimental and soft - the hippies taking over: "let's all hold hands and play nice" etc. :D I don't personally agree with that, but I think it is a view held by plenty of people.

By all means give DEs an extra skill - I play them! :wink: The thing about DEs is that they do well if they get skills up front. I don't know how tournaments in Denmark work, but if they are 'one skill after each game' then DEs will seem to struggle.

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Re: Eurobowl 2012 Proposed ruleset

Post by sann0638 »

You've listed tier 2 twice :D

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Re: Eurobowl 2012 Proposed ruleset

Post by Topper »

You've listed tier 2 twice
- Edited

I agree completely with the DE up front skilled (in fx 2 batches) vs the one skill per game progression.
We usually play with one skill per game in Denmark - and it has been like that at the EB until last year I believe? So I admit that the tier system is based on that assumption (one skill per game) but if most prefer we are glad to change that into two batches of skills.

About the races at EB there was a large discussion last time as to whether it was possible to get more races into play - it is that discussion we´re trying to address with our proposal, which we have tested for years now.

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Re: Eurobowl 2012 Proposed ruleset

Post by Joemanji »

I think the 3/3 skill pack used in 2010 definitely brought more races into play. DEs and Lizards in particular struggle with 0 or 1 skill, but can compete with anyone if they start with 3. It also means that teams like Humans and Necros can get involved too.
Topper wrote:In the first round teams are paired according to their eurobowl result from 2010. Any teams that did not participate in eurobowl 2010 are put last and ranked at random. The winners face the runner up, the 3rd placed team face the 4th and so forth.
Should the first round be random or swiss-draw?
Having quickly discussed this with some England chaps, our immediate conclusion is that Germany do very well out of it. England play Denmark, Italy play Spain etc... tough rounds. But Germany will likely play the Freebooters or a unknown quantity such as Finland or Sweden. Seems like they are being rewarded for not travelling to France. If you are to seed the first round, perhaps do so based on some other criteria? Perhaps average Eurobowl finishing position, or the combined NAF ranking of the coaches on a team? Neither of them are perfect, but they are imperfect for everyone at least. :)

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Re: Eurobowl 2012 Proposed ruleset

Post by mepmuff »

Topper wrote: Goblins can buy 0-3 bribes at 50.000 and Halflings can buy the chef at 100.000.
So that ´Flings and Gobbosd are usable - but not good.
I'm not so good at theorybowl, but wouldn't allowing those inducments for all teams at CRP prices yield the same effect? Or is there a team that would be broken with a 100k bribe?

Why would I like this better? Because a rule for all is more elegant than an exception IMHO.

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Re: Eurobowl 2012 Proposed ruleset

Post by Magictobe »

Joemanji wrote:I think the 3/3 skill pack used in 2010 definitely brought more races into play. DEs and Lizards in particular struggle with 0 or 1 skill, but can compete with anyone if they start with 3. It also means that teams like Humans and Necros can get involved too.
Topper wrote:In the first round teams are paired according to their eurobowl result from 2010. Any teams that did not participate in eurobowl 2010 are put last and ranked at random. The winners face the runner up, the 3rd placed team face the 4th and so forth.
Should the first round be random or swiss-draw?
Having quickly discussed this with some England chaps, our immediate conclusion is that Germany do very well out of it. England play Denmark, Italy play Spain etc... tough rounds. But Germany will likely play the Freebooters or a unknown quantity such as Finland or Sweden. Seems like they are being rewarded for not travelling to France. If you are to seed the first round, perhaps do so based on some other criteria? Perhaps average Eurobowl finishing position, or the combined NAF ranking of the coaches on a team? Neither of them are perfect, but they are imperfect for everyone at least. :)

Ola ola, Belgium will play spain. The country that beat us 8 - 0 some years ago. :oops: This will not be so bad for spain as well. :roll: Spain finished third and Belgium finished fourth.

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Re: Eurobowl 2012 Proposed ruleset

Post by Topper »

Hmm anyone got an idea where I can see the final standings from EB2010?
Can´t seem to find them (not even at the official 2010 EB page).

I see your points, good stuff so far :)
I think the 3/3 skill pack used in 2010 definitely brought more races into play. DEs and Lizards in particular struggle with 0 or 1 skill, but can compete with anyone if they start with 3. It also means that teams like Humans and Necros can get involved too.
So for you it would make more sense to give skills in batches - and then perhaps an extra skill for tier 2 teams? Or?

I'm not so good at theorybowl, but wouldn't allowing those inducments for all teams at CRP prices yield the same effect? Or is there a team that would be broken with a 100k bribe?
i haven´t playtested this, but I believe that some teams could get alot out of a bribe.
The Dwarves fx with their Deathroller, but also the less expensive teams who as it is now can field some 14 players could perhaps use a bribe instead.

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Re: Eurobowl 2012 Proposed ruleset

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Re: Eurobowl 2012 Proposed ruleset

Post by Thadrin »

Topper wrote:About the DE´s, It´s obviously a matter of opinion which teams belong in which tiers. And i recognize the statistics - the thing is that these lists take little concern to who is playing what team. However it is funny that in all my time as a EB coach I have seen 1-2 of them at the EB.. They´re there but not on a large scale - and I have never attended a tourney where they did really good. Ie were all over the top places
They can just work if they get a starter skill or much better as in the worldcup with more skills.
I'd argue that all of this applies to Necromantic teams to the same, if not a greater, degree...but they're not on your list, so must be tier 1.

This sort of system only promotes arguing about which teams belong where. I don't think it has any place at Eurobowl.

and FWIW I really liked the 3 skill - 3 skill set up, even though I didn't get to come to EB10 in the end.

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Re: Eurobowl 2012 Proposed ruleset

Post by Tourach »

As far as I know our tiers are based on statistical data.

edit: as far as I remember there was 6 teams that was represented 8 or more times in last EB, could also use that as tier 1. Or data for the last 5 years,I think we would probably get the same result. I see no problem in placing teams in a tier to high like necro than in tier to low like placing woodies in tier 2.

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Re: Eurobowl 2012 Proposed ruleset

Post by Niebling »

Good points in this post, vert construktive :)

After reading here I agree that we should not pair up the first round only on the results of last years eurobowl results, if nothing else its kinda booring that people already know now whom they are going to play :)

I dont think it should be all random either, maybe somekind of draw in tiers (yes we like tiers we danes ;) :smoking: )
Make two or three groups based on all eurobowl results archived by the contreys and they make match up at random within those groups.

Also I still very much prefer the team tier rules, I see your point Joe, but I just think the tier rule makes it even more competative, since it brings more teams into play, it might force people to rethink there skills and or team choice thus even more option for skilled players to use.

About DE, by all meens make it tier 1, but I dont think it belongs there. The DE team does not have a strong tradition for doing well in tournements and I think the team needs the boots.

The Nerco team is tier 1 for sure, last years eurobowl proved that :)

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Re: Eurobowl 2012 Proposed ruleset

Post by Lyricoz »

My idea was that each team has to have at least one coach playing one of these rosters

Goblin, Halfling, Ogre, Underworld

After that we can give these rosters more skills or more "double" skills than others rosters but the coaches who are playing during the year these rosters would have a chance to play and show there skills at the EB...

We can imagine to create a second "compulsory" list as (at least one of these rosters per country!)

Chaos Pact, Khemri, Nurgle, Slann, Chaos,Vampire.

At the end we would have still 6 coaches who could play whatever roster they want...

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