Future hosts

The annual European clash of Nations.

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Tripleskull
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Re: Future hosts

Post by Tripleskull »

juergen wrote:I am for and against the idea that a nation needs to attend a couple of times before "allowed" to host a Eurobowl
PRO: this nation knows about Eurobowl and they know what to expect
CON: every country can host a good Eurobowl but what if they can't travel to all Eurobowl to qualify for it (Hungary comes in mind, AFAIK they often don't attend because they can't afford the travel expenses.

How about something like this:
- to qualify for the Pool of next years host
-- the country needed to have attended at least 3 Eurobowls in the last 5 or 6 years
-- order them by # of hosted eurobowls ascending (0 austria, 0 belgium, ..., 1 england, .... , 2 italy)

- to be selcted as next host
-- offer the first nation with 0 hosted eb's that finished best at current eb to host the eurobowl (in this year: austria)
-- if they decline, offer it to the next (this year: belgium) and so on
-- if no nation with 0 hosted eb's are in the pool (or they all decline), go up with the nations that already hosted 1 eb and so on.

hope this wasn't to complicated to get my point ;-)
I like this.

What is the history behind Italy hosting twice in such a short period?

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Re: Future hosts

Post by Magictobe »

I think the decission to only let eurobowl be organized by countries who haven't, was made after that itallian win.

Then it was the winners who could organize eurobowl.

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Re: Future hosts

Post by Tripleskull »

Magictobe wrote:I think the decission to only let eurobowl be organized by countries who haven't, was made after that itallian win.

Then it was the winners who could organize eurobowl.
I think it would be reasonable if they count as having hosted only ones then. 20+ years is a long time to need to wait :D

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Re: Future hosts

Post by Topper »

The question of whether a (properly represented) nation should have attended a certain number of events is interesting. I guess this would have prevented Wales, Sweden or Finland from hosting should they have placed highest this year. Not sure that would be fair since they made the effort to travel + would have earned their placing on merit. Such a rule might also prevent Hungary from hosting if they were to attend and place highest in Austria.
So far Sweden & Finland have answered on this question and it´s one each way.
However I find the main issues here three things:

a) Do the team that wins the rights have what it takes to actually hold it? If it´s a relatively new country, then it´s likely that the community isn´t too tight. And to have a large event like this needs a lot of people who are willing to help in.
This could result in the team saying yes and then finding out they don´t have the capability afterwards. Then what? The Danes had preparations over two years to hold this. Half a year or similar is very little time to get everything done, in case it´s suddenly turned on to another country.

b) The culture of the Eurobowl is something, that I feel, is different from any other tournament. The more people from a given country that has experienced this means that there will be more eager hands to help, better ideas on the table, more drive when things get pressured etc.
If this culture isn´t understood or implemented correctly then the event can suddenly backfire.
This also goes down to all the unspoken agreements of captainship etc. But it´s also about having a good network abroad that can help IF you can´t get hold of just the right person somewhere etc.

c) Finally as it is at the moment a team that doesn´t want to hold it can be FORCED to hold it. That´s a really bad idea.

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Re: Future hosts

Post by Turin »

Topper wrote:c) Finally as it is at the moment a team that doesn´t want to hold it can be FORCED to hold it. That´s a really bad idea.
I think, nobody would apply the current system that way. Firstly because forcing a country to host the EB against its wish is a very bad idea for the whole event (I concur with you), secondly because I'm sure there are plenty of people who would want to host it at their country to fill in any gaps.

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SillySod
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Re: Future hosts

Post by SillySod »

Wales also wanted to host it.

I think there are two really cool things about the current system that any new system should be trying to replicate:
1 - Hosting rights add flavour to the competition. It means that you are competing for more than just the trophy.
2 - It is possible for some of the lesser countries to win this opportunity.

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Re: Future hosts

Post by Joemanji »

I agree with your points Sillysod, as I guess do most people. But there is going to be a point where we run out of suitable hosts. We don't want to get to the point where Slovenia hosts a terrible event nobody can get to anyway. Which means we need to reintroduce the big countries again at some point. The question is when of course, as some nations may think they are capable of running the event but probably are not. Austria 2013 will be the first Eurobowl outside of the 'big six' since the first. I have every confidence it will be great.

I was glad to see the Welsh come along and look like they were enjoying themselves. But I would have been nervous if they had won hosting rights this year. The most thing the hosts can do is protect the spirit of Eurobowl. I think a minimum number is important to earn the right to host.

How about this (rough outline) : The right to host the next Eurobowl is based on a points system made up of :

* Finishing position (1st =10, 2nd = 9 so size of event doesn't distort this part etc.)
add
* Number of Eurobowls attended.
add
* Years since last hosted (never = years since first in 2004).
less
* 6 for each time you've hosted (count Italy once) : the 'big six penalty'.

So this year we would have had :

France = 10 + 8 + 1 - 6 = 13
Italy = 9 + 8 + 3 - 6 = 14
Denmark = 8 + 7 + 0 - 6 = 9
England = 7 + 7 + 7 - 6 = 15
Spain = 6 + 7 + 4 - 6 = 11
Germany = 5 + 7 + 8 - 6 = 14
Austria = 4 + 4 + 9 = 17
Sweden = 3 + 1 + 9 = 13
Belgium = 2 + 5 + 9 = 16
Holland = 1 + 7 + 9 - 6 = 11
Finland = 0 + 1 + 9 = 10
Wales = 0 + 1 + 9 = 9
Scotland = 0 + 4 + 9 = 11
Switzerland = 0 + 4 + 9 = 11

As you can see here Austria and Belgium (the two most 'eligible' nations) are clearly ahead. But the big six are creeping back in. As you go on the formula will favour lesser nations as the points for finishing position are capped at 10 whilst points for attending and time since held are not.

So in Austria : Belgium will have a huge +16 bonus whereas the 'big six' will be on 11, 10, 7, 7, 3. So so long as Belgium finish 5 places behind Germany and 6 behind England they'll host in 2014.

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Re: Future hosts

Post by Tripleskull »

I like it.

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Re: Future hosts

Post by Pipey »

I'm not so sure. Seems too complicated.

Might be less suspenseful if everyone needs to get their calculators out going into the final round...

I would've thought the current model would be a good basis.

Rule 1: highest placed nation who has not yet hosted may host the following year's Eurobowl
Rule 2: nations must be made up of at least 6 eligible nationals
Rule 3: if the nation can't or won't then the responsibility passes to the next highest nation who has not hosted
Rule 4: if all nations who have not hosted are not able or willing, the highest placed nation may host, even if they have already hosted once before

Once all eligible and willing nations have hosted, the process would start again. We'll all be a few years older by then... ;-)

The Sweden or Wales example is a good one. These guys would have had lots of support from a very strong community, from neighbouring nations and Eurobowl stalwarts. The community would not allow a 'bad Eurobowl' to happen. Just can't see it.

This is a very good point I think:
adhansa wrote:One of our goals as Sweden was playing for the host placement... We would have the wish and We beleive it would be an event that would strengthen the Swedish national BB community...


Developing smaller or less-established areas would be fantastic for Blood Bowl (and the NAF). And the EB regulars get to explore a new nation. Everyone wins. No?

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Re: Future hosts

Post by Netsmurf »

Get together before the EB and ask every nation: do you want to host the EB if you win the right? Then when the tourney is finished and all clap their hands, announce the first eligible and wanting nation.

Should none of the <<we have not hosted EB before nations>> choose to host, then ask the highest ranking nation.

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Re: Future hosts

Post by Boneless »

We would love nothing more than to host the Euro bowls

I will be honest that was my personal goal, that for me was the win...

We know we can't compete with the big guys ...... yet ;-)

For us as a nation of blood bowlers, we have struggled to get a team for the last 5 years, and many did say a big Weldone that we made it after trying for so long.

After the WC we gained a little momentum. I feel it has picked up speed...

I saw first hand the organisation involved and the work. Can I do this alone? No

Could Wales team do this? Probably not and play as well

Could I call on my league in Bristol and ask for help? Would I call the English? Pippy, Lycos, geggster, Joemanji and others with the right contacts? Yes

Can Wales host this event? I believe so but we would need help, just like we did to get a team to Denmark. Lycos, Podfrey, and many more all giving advice and words of wisdom.

I believe hosting would help Wales as a BB nation go to the next level if you like...

So what am I trying to say?

To the small nation the hosting is there euro bowl trophy..
To the small nation this can help you get to the next in the hope of hosting

Food for thought

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Re: Future hosts

Post by Lard »

Netsmurf wrote:Get together before the EB and ask every nation: do you want to host the EB if you win the right? Then when the tourney is finished and all clap their hands, announce the first eligible and wanting nation.

Should none of the <<we have not hosted EB before nations>> choose to host, then ask the highest ranking nation.
+1

Bang on target sir! Keep it simple and clean.

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Re: Future hosts

Post by Rats »

Lard wrote:
Netsmurf wrote:Get together before the EB and ask every nation: do you want to host the EB if you win the right? Then when the tourney is finished and all clap their hands, announce the first eligible and wanting nation.

Should none of the <<we have not hosted EB before nations>> choose to host, then ask the highest ranking nation.
+1

Bang on target sir! Keep it simple and clean.
+1

Roller

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Re: Future hosts

Post by Topper »

Overall I agree with yours, Adhansa´s and Pippy posts. However I have a genuine "feel" that someone would step up to it - not realizing how massive a task it is - and thus the question is if it would be blown that way.
I don´t really see how the community can do much to help. Few people outside the country has knowledge of possible places to hold it etc.
They´re unlikely to bring in the 5-15 extras (ie. staff etc) that might be needed for the tourney and it wouldn´t be on the premisses of those who were supposed to do it - if someone else suddenly takes over.

For this past tourney we were three prime arrangers - probably spending 100-150 hrs each over the course of the year. Another 5 or so who helped out. Each maybe shipping in 10 hours. Then the staff, referees & orcanizers. Its a big commitment - and many things aren´t clear to one prior to having a thing like this.

I do believe that it´s better that you guys have attended a couple of times or three to have that community knitted together and understanding what it´s about.
I do not believe that those who have held it before should get back in before there are no countries that can hold it according to this premises.
It´s not about taking you out of the equation - its about hosting it when one is ready. I might be wrong, but it is more than one assumes - it even was for us - and we had 2 yrs and plenty of backfield help.

But IF guys from other places are willing to invest massive amount of their spare time to help organizing in another country - then it´s clearly not an issue. But I doubt that people are willing to invest that much time in it.

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Re: Future hosts

Post by SillySod »

Approaching it from the perspective of someone who has run a smaller event....

What kind of things need to be put in place that you would not need to sort out for a regular tournament?

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