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 Post subject: comprenensive list/comparison of games
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:58 pm 
Super Star
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Okay so all the BB alternatives out there right now and some in progress:

-Blood Bowl (of course) CRP
-Elfball
-Dreadball
-Grind
-Scrumbrawl
-kaosball
-tutalis (whatever happened with this one?)


KS or in progress
-Guildball
-slaughterball

OOP
-killball
-Battleball
-Dungeon Bowl
-Kerrunch
-BB earlier editions
-grav ball

Did I forget any? I have looked at and compared Bloodbowl, Elfball, Scrumbrawl, Battleball, and Grind in the past, but with the recent influx of sport based games I have given up. any insight into the pros and cons of all these games and did I forget any?

PS here is a link to BGG list of football with minis http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/30030 ... tem1685956

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Last edited by bouncergriim on Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: comprenensive list/comparison of games
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:59 pm 
Super Star
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Quick cut and dry analysis:

-Blood Bowl
Tried and true, we all know this one, rules can be quick to learn the basics, skill and the like can get complicated, awesome league potential, inherently imbalanced at times, crappy support from company that made it.
-Elfball
Been around longer than the rest, still not well enough known yet, very balanced, awesome company support, rules for league and some awesome skills, haven't got a league to work for it yet, awesome company support. minis work for Bloodbowl
-Battleball
out of print, very basic rules, not much depth/reply, nice way to test the waters for little ones to play this game, minis come prepainted and could be used in other games, lots of dice very little skill.
-Killball
GalakStarscraper wrote:
And bouncer ... I would probably remove Killball off the list. It is ultra violent soccer/dodgeball and you would never want anyone under the age of 17 to read the rulebook as it is loaded with sexual references. And when it has been tried ... it drives you nuts sometimes because you can only throw the ball in straight ordinal lines (N,S,E,W) ... you cannot throw it diagonally.

Just my opinion on this one.


-Dreadball
haven't tried it yet
-Grind
I liked this game, one of the first out there after Bloodbowl, elfball and battleball. Cool minis that can be converted for Warmachine (but requires a fair amount of effort). Very complex rules at time, had to refer to the rulebook a lot and not a well laid out rulebook. Has league rules, haven't tried them. PP tried to support this but gave up on it. if you can find it for ~$20 worth giving at try. Not worth $70.
-Scrumbrawl
Fun light board game, no minis just carboard in stands. I like this but it is more of a diversion than a full sports game. Very easy to get rules, No league potential.
-kaosball
Haven't tried

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Last edited by bouncergriim on Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: comprenensive list/comparison of games
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:33 pm 
Experienced
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For me this will be an interesting thread to watch as I am a fan of and even own a lot of these games. I will chime in with my very own take as well later as I am in a hurry right now, but thanks a lot for creating this thread! I do hope a lot of the others will join the conversation.


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 Post subject: Re: comprenensive list/comparison of games
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:49 pm 
Legend
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Monetarily I am sunk into BB for all time and can ill afford anything else in this economy.... Still, it is worthwhile to get an analysis of what is out there and quite interesting from a 30 years-of-gaming point of view....

Not unlike the "bash vs agility" conundrum of BB, I feel that newcomers to the industry will face a dichotomy that makes things difficult: did they get into this to sell miniatures, trying to slice the thin-sliced pie thinner (as Tom Anders once mentioned) and pushing out an ill-thought rules book to avoid gw litigation, or are they hawking a good game system that will inevitably be compared as a weak sister to BB?

Impact/Tom got into the business from near ground zero and seems to have successfully (I hope :D ) thought outside the dichotomy to produce miniatures AND a good game system in Elfball.... Name aside, my perception of the game is that it is darned good in its own right and not interesting (to me, ymmv) enough to pull my dollars away from buying miniatures for BB.... Happily, some of those minis, pitch, etc., are from Tom's company....

Grind was/is a great system spawning from a Privateer Press player's article.... Unfortunately for my friends, it wasn't BB enough... cost was a little high... and it didn't appeal to the mass populace of gamers (well, in all honesty, BB doesn't where we are for the most part)....

The gaming business is built on discretionary spending and must, perforce, compete with everything from comic books, to collectible cards, to other gaming systems....

Happy that the ol' game of Blood Bowl got there firstest with the mostest.... :orc:

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 Post subject: Re: comprenensive list/comparison of games
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:29 pm 
Godfather of Blood Bowl
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I will definitely stand behind Elfball as a great game and with the help of the players we've refined the rules to make it better. Chris and I are working on version 3.0 of the game based on player feedback to alter a couple minor points (like being able to push a player on the ground out of bounds or away from the goal). My hope and goal is to launch version 3.0 on KickStarter early next year with all 20 of teams available in the game in Trollcast versions to make them affordable. So the focus for 2014 for us to to get all the Elfball teams available in Trollcast. I still have 12 teams to move to Trollcast (however the Orc team we just picked up is the last team we did not have sculpted for Elfball so that will be covered as well). So we are definitely still very committed to Elfball and know it is a great game and we hope to make it more commercially known in 2015 and we may even make Digger happy by considering an update to the name of the game to help make it more commercially viable.

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 Post subject: Re: comprenensive list/comparison of games
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:37 pm 
Godfather of Blood Bowl
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And bouncer ... I would probably remove Killball off the list. It is ultra violent soccer/dodgeball and you would never want anyone under the age of 17 to read the rulebook as it is loaded with sexual references. And when it has been tried ... it drives you nuts sometimes because you can only throw the ball in straight ordinal lines (N,S,E,W) ... you cannot throw it diagonally.

Just my opinion on this one.

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 Post subject: Re: comprenensive list/comparison of games
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:09 pm 
Kommissar Enthusiasmoff
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Excited to hear about developments to Elfball, always been an advocate as it is markedly different to BB. My problem is playing these games often enough to keep all the rules in my head - no idea how to play Grind, for example, despite it sitting on my shelf. Nice figures though, and I plan to use them as ogres at some point.

Killball (Spiky's copy) is also sitting on a shelf, as is Dreadball, though I dug that out the other day and realised I couldn't remember how to play (hint: it's a rip-off of Elfball ;) ).

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 Post subject: Re: comprenensive list/comparison of games
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:41 pm 
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BB: it's BB - 'nuff said!

Elfball: I want to like the game, I've two sets so we can play it at the club, but I just couldn't get anyone to play it (though that might have been an issue at the club at the time, which was very GW orientated at the time). Having no-one to play locally means it's just sat in the cupboard, and I really couldn't remember how to play it now.

Dreadball: Loving it so far (and yes, I know a lot of it was taken from/is similar to Elfball). whole club seems to be taken with the game, especially the fact we can get two or more games in a night (handy when two players have to leave for work early 5 out of 7 weeks). As we play more we're digging deeper and deeper into the tactical side of the game, to the point some of us are interested in attending (and losing) in tournaments. Probably helped that via KS I had all the season 1 and season 2 teams to hand.


Other than that, apart from seeing one game of Grindball I've never been exposed to the others, and if I'm honest I think I have enough sports games - plenty of other games I want to play.

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 Post subject: Re: comprenensive list/comparison of games
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:34 pm 
Legend
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Wonder if the elfball (why the name, why :) ) dreadball similarities were independently arrived at.

Battleball is the easist to teach and in some ways the most fun when playing younger relatives. Dreadball retains BB's complexity. There has yet to be a simple to grasp game with the complexity of say Dwarf kings hold or a similar boardgame.

Oh and are you going to include Dungeonbowl?

And what about Krunch? :)


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 Post subject: Re: comprenensive list/comparison of games
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:57 pm 
Godfather of Blood Bowl
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Chris wrote:
Wonder if the elfball (why the name, why :) )


Because we purchased the rights to the game concept from Phil Bowen who created the original base of the game. About 90% of the rules have changed since then. :D

I know I said maybe ... but the truth is that when we do the KickStarter we plan to rename the game to make it more commercially viable. New box art to go with it.

As soon as I have that last team moved to Trollcast ... getting this game redone will be a top priority.

Tom

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 Post subject: Re: comprenensive list/comparison of games
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:08 pm 
Super Star
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I was trying to focus on more currently available titles that are not just offshoots or mods of blood bowl is why I didn't include dungeon bowl and Krunch.

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 Post subject: Re: comprenensive list/comparison of games
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:10 am 
Experienced
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GalakStarscraper wrote:
My hope and goal is to launch version 3.0 on KickStarter early next year with all 20 of teams available in the game in Trollcast versions to make them affordable. So the focus for 2014 for us to to get all the Elfball teams available in Trollcast.

Sounds great, count me in! :)


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 Post subject: Re: comprenensive list/comparison of games
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:15 am 
Legend
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Sorry missed the available bit - in which base battleball is surely out as well?


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 Post subject: Re: comprenensive list/comparison of games
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:32 am 
Experienced
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bouncergriim wrote:
I was trying to focus on more currently available titles that are not just offshoots or mods of blood bowl is why I didn't include dungeon bowl and Krunch.

Nah, let's go for the whole lot. It is rather difficult to compile a complete list, so this could be a really interesting opportunity, don't you think?


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 Post subject: Re: comprenensive list/comparison of games
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 4:36 pm 
Experienced
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So here is my take on the different entries. Just a short disclaimer first: I am mostly a collector. I've got a lot of games in my collection, I haven't played once, let alone tried in a league format or at a tournament. So design and style is probably more important to me than perfectly balanced rules.

-Blood Bowl: Even though I am not that good a player, I enjoy the game immensely. It is the first fantasy football game I've played (2nd edition) and I have a lot of great memories of losing games withhout having anything resembling a gameplan, but still having tons of fun. When I first bought 2nd edition, I got a German translation the shop owner typed himself, as my English was not good enough at the time (I was 12, I think). 3rd edition is also the game I compare every other fantasy football game with, as it felt complete back then.

-Elfball: Haven't played it yet, but read the rules. And while I am sure to back it as soon as Galak puts up a new version on Kickstarter, the current art and team design doesn't click with me. Therefore, I did not take the plunge until now. The Sarcos on the other hand are among the best sculpts I've for any fantasy football game so far.

-Dreadball: The most obvious plus is the amount of support the game gets from Mantic at the moment. Although the speed of new releases sometimes feels too high for me. Gameplay is fast and furious and the trailing player usually has the chance to turn the game within one turn. Not having to redeploy after a touchdown also results in games that don't drag as long as some BB matches, so you can fit two matches in one evening.

-Grind: Looks nice, but I don't like the big ball that takes up one space by itself. Doesn't feel like football and more like boulder rolling for machines.

-Scrumbrawl: Actually, I don't know anything about it. Is it any good?

-Kaosball: Went in as a late backer and should be getting the basic game plus two additional teams in the next months. Scoring sounds game-y to the extreme and does not feel natural at all, but I like the production values and that it plays with up to 4 players out of the box. Also the league system sounds interesting with achievements mixing up the usual way of gathering experience for your team. Still a little bit sceptical though about some other parts of the rules as well.

-Guildball: Man, did they do a great social media campaign up until now. They've got way more than 2000 facebook followers and have not even started their Kickstarter yet. The rules sound ridiculously complicated and they are using range rulers and free movement instead of spaces. The setting OTOH seems interesting with guilds instead of the usual fantasy fare.

-Slaughterball: My current favorite. The sculpts look amazing, the rules sound fresh and simple and you get enough in the box to start a 4 player league right away. I love the concept with the genetically engineered athletes and that you are finally able to score points and win games in different ways.

-Battleball: A little on the shallow side. Would have loved to have a little more fluff for the different characters, but it's not that kind of game. I haven't played the game yet, but there also seem to be some problems where the result of a game basically boils down to which player is able to roll a high enough movement first. Components are great and pre-painted to a decent quality standard.


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